Unvarnished truth in Classical Wu Style Tai Chi

                                                Good example of incorrect body structure/alignment

I get emails from students which for the most part I also cc to Master Hwa. This "answer" was also cc'd to Master Hwa:

Of late there has been quite a few that tell me of "previous experience" in Yang, Wu, Chen,  or other Wu styles,  or what is "seen on Youtube". I  also heard concerns of this ilk from many students who come to my studio. 

The unvarnished truth of this is: For a beginning student in this (regardless of previous experience in Yang, Wu, Chen, etc.)  there has to be concern over body structure or alignment so there is no point talking of what someone in another style or teacher does. There is no point in talking of what the intent or application is as well. 

In a proverbial sense one does not put the cart before the horse nor turn their head as if to dance with another teacher while learning Classical Wu Style Tai Chi.

See pp. i in the Introduction to Uncovering the Treasure by Stephen Hwa, PhD available on Amazon,  Create Space  for further information on body structure and alignment.

My concern is: If one admits being a beginning student then by default how can you not at least acknowledge that part of your attention will have to go to your correct/incorrect body structure or alignment? 

Inevitably, there will be incorrect body structure or alignment in learning this...

In light of this how do you propose to correct these Tai Chi postures coupled with thoughts of whether Young Wabu deviated from Wu Chien Chuan's teachings, or what was or was not emphasized with something else, or what intent/application is, or what is on youtube?

Concerns and questions of this ilk:

 "I watched youtube, I did Yang, Wu, Chen, this Wu teacher, that 

teacher is double weighted on Youtube, Young Wabu deviated from Wu Chien Chuan, 

What is the application of this because Yang does that, etc., etc".

Answer: I was not aware that youtube was the repository of what is correct in Tai Chi.

Answer: I was not aware that  other Wu Styles, Chen and Yang styles, etc.,  were a gold standard for this.

A start and "first lesson"

Subject: Lesson one question

The workshop info on the sight is from 2011.  I thought I’d send these questions to you in case the parea email address isn’t checked frequently, out dated or is not used.

Thank you

I have purchased the set of DVDs.  I showed my friend (Yang practitioner) and he says it’s the most complete DVD course he’s seen.   He pointed out the internal movement is not something that’s normally taught on video. He suggested doing the round lesson and then put the square form dvd  to do the same section or vice versa.

  

I am at the cross hands in the lessons but I have a question about tai chi walk and Lesson on opening moves. 

1.)    When doing tai chi walk when put my foot down with my heel raised I’m pretty flexible and can almost get my foot to 90 degrees.  When I tilt my pelvis I can’t put my foot down cleanly the heel can’t drop cleanly because the heel sort of gets in the way.  I have to decrease my angle to easily push my pelvis down and pull forward.  Is this a common occurrence?  It feels odd controlling the angle putting my foot down.  Can I decrease the angle?  I don’t think I compromise the stretch when I plant my foot.  This problem is more intensified when I wear shoes.

2.)    When doing the opening form on the first turn from south to west you end up on the toe of your right foot.  Before performing grasp the birds tail do you reestablish the right foot by lifting the toe of the right foot so I can plant the heal on the ground, pull forward  and then turn to the left 45 degrees.  I cannot tell from the video because it looks like a subtle move.  I have the issue in question 1 when doing this move and I think tucking the tailbone makes it worse since in can point my toe at an even greater angle.

Sorry to ask such questions so early in the DVD.  An extra question on form history

I was told Yang Luchan does his Yang form upright.  Brush knee was the example I was shown.  Yang Chengfu does brush knee leaning forward more like Wu.   How does the second generation change the posture from upright to a straight lean?

I have included Master Stephen Hwa's address at info@classicaltaichi.com and so a copy of this will go to him. This per his instructions on the web page.   I did the video editing and my own student did the videography, all of the teaching at the workshop is by Master Hwa.  I'm sure you understand as a student of his and out of respect,  I can only defer to him when it comes to questions about his DVD series.  I would rather that credit go to him for information and answers to questions.

That being said, it sounds like you are making good progress so I can certainly offer my encouragement, repeat what I have been told and not my opinion in light of what I have learned from Master Hwa:

I have reiterated your questions for convenience:

 1.) "How does the second generation change the posture from upright to a straight lean?"

2.) " Before performing grasp the birds tail do you reestablish the right foot by lifting the toe of the right foot so I can plant the heal on the ground, pull forward  and then turn to the left 45 degrees.?"

3.)  I have to decrease my angle to easily push my pelvis down and pull forward.  Is this a common occurrence?  It feels odd controlling the angle putting my foot down.  Can I decrease the angle? 

What I have learned myself: 

1.) Regarding any questions about why "second generation "changed" from upright to lean: I can only repeat what I am told to my limited understanding and ask you a question:   How could it be changed when it was already in a state where it was far ahead in its progress?  My teacher tells me Wu Chien Chuan told Young Wabu "it cannot be changed".  I see he  did not say it was changed or it was not changed... he said: "it cannot be changed". Over time,  I eventually began to undrstand this when I realized not only  the learning is multi generational but the eventual consequences...the "benefits" as well..."time" invested is the ultimate and deciding factor to all understanding. 

2.) When I had questions like this I would remember that my teacher would say "you perceive you are moving a certain way , but in fact you are not moving that way" and he would urge me to remember " sometimes the appearance of reality is actually an illusion" . For instance,  I would think he was moving  the quarter body movement a certain way and tried to do the same, later I found my observation was not correct, I was scrunching my chest.   I also find that I was advancing by learning all the form in a short period of time but from time to time I would take a turn for the worse.  He explained to me that was because I did not have a firm foundation under my form practice.  Once I "perceived" I was "familiar" with some movements, like quarter body I found I started getting careless.  This is another reason why I don't put much stock in answers to questions. I figure if I have questions and expect "answers" and not "experience" what good will it do? So, I find out things for myself and as Eddie Wu told me:  "the form is your treasure box, not mine"... Master Hwa says  the treasure is in a process of "Uncovering".

3.) I discovered through trial and error and as "plugging away"  that I continued to think I "got it" and yet  I did not.  I find the DVD series wonderful in that one can go to it hundreds of times with the same question, wherein there is no teacher that would listen to that same question hundreds of times in person.  He tells me this is why he incorporated several different views in his videos, so I could see his moves at different angles to decrease chances of a wrong impression.  I also find that viewing the "question" over several days with fresh eyes each day was of great help. 

I hope a reflection of my own experience  helps and I realize I do not supply you with answers. I  can only encourage you to continue with your study. I defer to my own teacher for his comments on your email and this is forwarded to him.

Jim R.

Classical Wu Style corrections

Classical Wu Style Tai Chi: corrections to "Fist under elbow, Repulse Monkey (19 and 20)..." and "Closing Tai Chi (108)"

Video link:  Classical Wu Style corrections...  (opens in a new window)


A 2011 Workshop by Stephen Hwa, student of Grandmaster Young Wabu, student of Great Grandmaster Wu Chien Chuan. The subject is on the Classical Wu Style Tai Chi  corrections to the forms of individual students.A good resource for this can be found in the DVD series available at: http://www.classicaltaichi.com .

Student: (regarding postures 19 and 20)  "From there to the square form on that, how far does the hand go up?"
"Is that correct on the square form?"  "Yes"  "But on the round form?"  "I'm sensing that this is...as I am coming back that my arms just follow this"   "Right"  "I don't how far to...(raise the right hand)   The hand has to be raised to face height "face position".

Master Hwa:  "I did not see you do the round form too many times because last few times you just started out"

Student:  (regarding posture 108) "On the last lesson I had trouble with turning around and this movement of the arms and hands"

Master Hwa:  "That part was correct, good" "The ending point, there is an extension here, then you go over and feet are parallel"

Student: "Is there a turn of the foot here where it goes straight?"  "Yes, you turn the foot parallel which is the starting position"

Master Hwa:  "So this move gives a you a practice of what THIS move is"  "I don't think there is any other place that one sees this move"  "You are doing it with feet parallel?"....  "This you do not really exert a lot of power because you are using the tip of the fingers, so any body position you can do this".  "This is not like push, where you better have the right structure, or the fist where you better have the right structure"  "Well the push would be of longer duration?"..."Yes, and you would need force, so I do this and his body is not going to move, you just do this"  "You are not going to need a lot of power, you just have to get the right direction and do it toward soft tissue.  If you do it with power you will break your fingers"  "So that is one place that you practice that"..."So that kind of move is coupled with a positional move of the foot and a stretch, it gives you more potential for any kind of angle?"..."Right".  "So the other hand and side  does not move very much". "So, you have to practice the other side and then in this case it would be the left hand and foot"

Posture 19 – Fist Under Elbow 
As the weight transfers to the left leg, the head turns to look at 
the right hand, the hooked hand opens, palm down and moves to 
low-position 
• 
Right side turns left 90 degree on right heel, aligning both 
thumbs on the center-line of the body, one at face-position and 
the other at low-position 
• 
Left side turns left 90 degrees on left heel 
• 
Right side turns left 90 degrees, right foot moves to the right 
and behind the left foot (Bow Stance), while right hand rises to 
become parallel with the left hand 
• 
Palms rotate to face each other as hands form hollow fists. Left 
fist sits above the right fist 
• 
Weight transfers to right leg as right fist moves under left 
elbow (Left empty step) 
• 
Left fist opens with palm facing up 
• 
Left toes push to the ground 
• 
Weight transfers to left leg causing the upper body to turn 
naturally right. 
• 
Upper body rotates left to face forward 

Posture 20 - Repulse Monkey Left and Right  
Left palm rotates clockwise to face right 
• 
Weight transfers to right leg as right fist opens and moves 
parallel to the left palm, palm facing left 
• 
Right elbow lowers bringing right palm to mid-position 
• 
Right palm rotates to face down as right forearm brings right 
palm to lower left hip 
• 
Left hip lifts left foot 
• 
Left foot moves backward, left palm rotates to the front and 
body movement moves right palm over right knee 

Posture 108 – Closing T’ai Chi 
Both palms rotate to face down, as the arms extend to the sides 
at shoulder level, the right foot turns counterclockwise 45 
degrees on the ball 
• 
The weight is transferred to the right leg 
• 
Arms close to shoulder width as the left foot is drawn right and 
parallel to the left foot at shoulder width 
• 
The body straightens as both arms pull back to a 90 degree bend, 
palms facing front 
• 
The palms & forearms are drawn forward & down to the mid-
position, as if pulled by the wrists 
• 
Pause slightly 
• 
The arms are lowered to the sides with the palms facing down, 
fingers pointing front 
• 
Wrists relax and fingers point down 

Classical Wu Style Tai Chi "Walk"

                                               Classical Wu Style Tai Chi "Walk"

Video of "Walking"

Notice that Master Stephen Hwa's front foot is tilted up high as he "sits back".  Holding onto a post or wall, etc. is a good way to insure that as well as the following technical points,  in addition to practicing the walking exercise shown in this Youtube video:  

WALKING 

1.) That you are NOT looking at the ground, this is mentioned in the accompanying video link
2.) That you are NOT so concerned about balance that you neglect these technical aspects
3.) That you do NOT lean back when "sitting back" , this is mentioned in the accompanying video.
4.) That you do NOT point the toes of your feet out at an angle when moving forward or back.
5.) That you do NOT push but pull with the leg going forward and backward
6.) That you do NOT push with leg but contract the abdomen in vigorously as you pull with either leg
7.) That you do NOT use a "waving" motion of the body as you contract and move, it is one piece

I'm writing this from Acton, California but here is Master Hwa teaching my students at a Kenmore, NY H.S. circa 2005. Notice that Master Hwa's foot has its TOE POINTING DOWN with no bend or "crimp" in toes as he lifts the leg USING THE CORE NOT JUST THE LEG MUSCLES.  Notice the 2 ladies watching it and getting it correct, and one of the men seems befuddled. 

 

This acts to relax the foot and contributes greatly to the ability of the core to lift the leg.  If the toe points "bends, crimps" up, then chances are you are tightening the muscles of the foot and thus crimping the ability of the core to lift. That induces the body into using "external" not "internal movement.  Think of the concept this way:  Make as tight a fist as you "white knuckle"  can and try to move your arm, the same "crimping" of energy and thus impedes core movement occurs when you tighten the foot.  The same holds true for kicking as walking, the more you relax the toe, the more the heel can extend. 

Transcript of video from 6:00:

Master Hwa:  I am very surprised at the response to the Youtube videos I have of "walking".  Most people seem to respond to them.  So the walking does strike a chord when people see it. Also, a lot of sites link to the walking. They really can see the value of it.  It really is such a foundation for the Tai Chi. It provides so many benefits.

Notice the following in the "forward fa jin" photo which really is the "forward" posture in "walking":

That you do NOT have a curve in your back when forward
That you are NOT vertical but tilting forward when forward
That you do NOT have the front knee extending past the toe
That you do NOT have a lax, bent back leg but you DO have a straight back leg with
That you do NOT have the back heel up in the air but you DO have it firmly on the ground

Wuji (無極) Positions & Zhan Zhuang (站桩) Applications for Classical Wu Style Taijiquan

The Wuji Form and application of Zhan Zhuang will now be presented. 

Authored by J.B. Milne and Stephen Hwa, Ph.D.

Authored and edited with audio and video presentation by J.E. Roach

Breathing will be done naturally. 

Here is the audio of this written explanation:

Wuji explanation 

Here is the written explanation of Wuji

Zhan Zhuang for Taijiquan Practice. The Wuji Positions allows the practitioner to relax the mind, while, adjusting, aligning, and balancing the body to produce correct postures. Zhan Zhuang Training, on the other hand, strengthens the tendons and ligaments, aids in balancing, teaches the muscles to relax, and identifies weaknesses not noticed while practicing the Form. This is important in helping to identify the proper placement of the heel and weighting of the empty foot. 

The Square Form of Classical Taijiquan, brush knee movement (on both right and left sides) is being used to illustrate how Wuji and  Zhan Zhuang can be applied at those stopping points for each position. Applying these training methods in addition to form practice will help the student in developing strength and proper form. Wuji is defined as nothingness, the beginning before intention and movement. Wuji is discussed in many Taijiquan Books written by both practitioners and masters alike. These writers mainly address Wuji in the Preparation Posture and/or the Closing Posture of the Taiji Form. As such, most readers are left to believe Wuji is only accomplished at the beginning and ending of the Taiji Form. However, this is not so. Wuji is practiced during every posture, that is, every posture begins with Wuji, moves into Taiji, and returns to Wuji.

Zhan Zhuang (standing like a stake, standing like a tree) Training is a way to relax both the nervous and muscular systems simultaneously. This is accomplished by combining exertion and relaxation simultaneously. Breathing is done by inhaling and exhaling gently through the nose while keeping the mouth closed and relaxed. The chest, stomach, and hips are in a relaxed state. Zhan Zhuang helps with the identification of the energy flow in the different positions and trains to keep the localized nerve activity dormant (Forum 6); as well as, strengthening the yin side of the posture for strong rooting and building power (Forum 7). There is no set time limit in Zhan Zhuang Training; however, the seasoned practitioner has been known to hold the positions in excess of twenty minutes. Some have claimed to be able to hold the positions for hours. It is important to remember, that as the tension builds in different parts of the body, to tell yourself to relax. (RELAX, RELAX, RELAX) Start with short time frames and increase the holding time slowly.

Here is the movie:

Wuji movie  "Right side"

Wuji movie "Left side " 

Here is the audio mp3 of the instructions:

Wuji audio instructions "Right side"

Wuji audio instruction   "Left side"

Here are the written instructions for "right side" Wuji:

(Instructions for "left side" Wuji are to be found in "Wuji instruction left side" above)

1) Beginning of Brush Knee Push Step

The right foot is flat on the ground supporting the body weight completely with the right knee bent slightly.

The left leg is straight without any pressure on the knee or left heel, left toes are extended as high as they will go, giving a slight stretch to the back of the leg.

The tailbone is tucked in and the head is stretched up by the neck muscles.

The shoulders are relaxed and the elbows are pointing down.

The palms are facing each other at shoulder width, with the right fingers pointing to the front and the left fingers pointing up.

Notice that a straight line could be drawn between the crown of the head, passing through the ear and knee to the right foot.

2) Transition one

In transition one, the only change to the beginning position is the left arm is held across the body with the palm facing down.

3) Transition two

In transition two, the only change to transition one is the left toes are touching the ground. All the weight is still maintained on the right foot.

4) End of Brush Knee Push Step

In the end posture of Brush Knee Push Step, both feet are flat on the ground with the left leg supporting the body.

The right leg is straight with a stretch between the Achilles Heel and the back of the neck.

The right palm has rotated to face front, thumb in line with the nose, and the left palm has moved across the left thigh.

Notice that a straight line could be drawn between the crown of the head, passing through the ear and knee to the left foot, as well as, between the right ear, right shoulder, and right knee to the right foot.

Classical Wu Style Tai Chi application of Hand Strums the Lute 手揮琵琶

Application of Hand Strums the Lute 手揮琵琶

"If the opponent raises up, I seem taller;
if he sinks down, then I seem lower;
advancing, he finds the distance seems incredibly long;
retreating, the distance seems exasperatingly short."

Excerpt from: THE TREATISE ON T'AI CHI CH'UAN
Attributed to Wang Tsung-yueh
Researched by Lee Scheele

This application is demonstrated by Master Stephen Hwa here: Hand Strums the Lute

This describes the dynamic internal energy for the variation on Hand Strums the Lute 手揮琵琶
This variation of "hand strums the lute" occurs in the Classical Wu Style Tai Chi form a number of times (3) that precede and intersperse the repetitious movement in Parting the Wild Horse’s Mane 野馬分鬃.
The internal discipline of the movement itself comes from the core with the arms being largely immobile.  The lifting of the opponent comes from what might be called a lifting movement of the core at the waist.  An analogy might be described as opening the lid of a trunk with all the energy at the hinge. The body "opens" from a low to a high position wherein the student is inclining slightly back. One sees this type of vertical core movement "opening" in the "preparation" movement, the first movement of the form albeit without inclining.

Master Hwa:  "In the Jou Tsung Hwa's gathering I picked a guy to come at me.  He came at me, I sat back and threw him. Everybody (laughter) and I picked a big guy, so he came at me. So you see, let me do it slowly like in the form. It is really this move that is before "parting". This is a movement to handle people who come over the top at you and you do this.

Student: (laughter) that was hard for me to either lower myself or fall over.

Master Hwa;  You notice when a bigger person comes at me, I do not raise my hands.  My hands are still down here, I just lean the body back. With my arms down here they are very strong, if I raise them then I cannot lift him.

Student: All I felt was the integrity of your form, I did not feel any pressure.

Master Hwa:  Right. When I did it at the Jou Tsung Hwa festival, a guy that I threw, said "you do it very smoothly".  You do not feel any kind of forced movement. Very natural, I think.  This is why we never lift our hand over our head in the form or otherwise. If someone comes over the top I do this.  This looks like the hand is over the head but it is not.

Important Points of Classical Wu Style Tai Chi Push Hands

The following is the dialogue of the most recent Youtube video from Workshop 2011. The subject of the workshop is the basics of doing (click here) Classical Wu Style push hands.

• Master Stephen Hwa instructs, demonstrates and allows students to participate in the learning.  The subject includes what is referred to as non-competitive push hands.  Master Hwa demonstrates the importance of the following points:

1. Importance of going fully forward in any Tai Chi posture
2. The difficulties of going fully forward
3. How to counter being pulled over while forward
4. How to crimp or cramp up your opponent's posture
5. The importance of correct distancing and the difference it makes
6. The importance of sitting back fully
7. The importance of turning the body correctly
8. The role of the pelvis in correct push hands

The times correspond to the statement in the dialogue

0:41 Say for instance that he pulls me.
0:45 You see that is why you practice the form.
0:51 You want to be in this full forward position.
0:53 Lot of people in the beginning are afraid to go into that full forward position. They feel like they are tipping over or something.
1:04 Now if he pulls me like this, I can relax my shoulder...see that?
1:09 See how much I can do that (stretch at shoulder)
1:13 Now he is kind of cramped
1:17 Because I let that go
1:21 In these things a couple of inches make a difference
1:24 So when he pulls me, I give him a couple more inches...he is cramped
1:43 Now when he comes at me I want to be able to sit back as much as I can
1:50 So it is kind of like to 2 people competing, who can stretch more, who can sit back more
1:54 So now I can sit back more than he can stretch
2:02 Now if I turn too much like this, then he can just push sideways
2:14 If I keep the pelvis still, he cannot push me
2:19 It is square here, he cannot push me, but once I do this
2:29 Very very different isn't it?
2:30 So the ability to keep the pelvis fixed and turning has a huge impact in push hands
2:40 The ability to feel comfortable going forward and the ability to sit back has a huge impact on opponent
3:04 When you go outside to push hands with people, they may not follow any rules
3:13 Then there are the people who come through the rank of weight lifting rooms, with extreme strong upper body
3:25 What they first do is grab you with 2 hands
3:30 In that situation...you remember Peter is strong, right?
3:45 When they try to grab your hands, you have to be prepared.
3:50 Once I feel you grab my hands, I have to do this, I do not let you grab solidly
4:00 Once he grabs solidly, this is harder to do
4:10 So you can use this particular move in getting away from the grab
4:32 Now outside people will stand sideways like this
4:43 So if you come forward they are going to pull like this
5:04 Now to counter this you have to exploit the weakness but there are several ways to get around this.
5: 24 One way is you don't let me really grab you
5:26 The other way is they don't make a full grab, they grab you like this
5:44 Then you have to step forward quickly and then you can jam them
5:50 So my weak point is force coming this way from the side like this
6:05 If you let him pull like this, then you are sunk.  Remember a great 90% of people push hands like this ...one sided.
6:30 Then there is the other situation with people who always keep their body perpendicular to the ground.
6:40 Then it becomes like wrestling because I am always in the middle, no one wants to sit back.
7:20 Very frequently on the youtube you see people pushing and wrestling like this, no one wants to sit back
7:30 They don't want lean forward, they don't want to sitback, they are afraid
8:29 Just remember don't get your arms to close to your body
8:40 It is kind of a right angle with the arms
8:50 Don't turn your hip too much, it is unstable
9:20 Tucking is important, because when the force comes on to you, you will get this curve or bend in your back when you do not tuck.
9:35 So this bend will stop the force right in this zone
9:40 With a correct tuck the force starts transmitting downward through my leg
10: 00 Try to keep the body reasonably straight, fold at the pelvis here. This way you will have better turning ability
10:18 If you crunch too much forward, you cannot turn the body.

Classical Tai Chi and the reality of its application

Video Link to dialogue



In  "Pivot", (Qi Journal,  Autumn 2002) Y.L. Yip and Leroy Clark stated that Wu's Tai Chi was called "The Solar Plexus School" .  "Pivot" was a lengthy article in Qi Journal about the 1950's fight between Wu Kung-i and Ch'en K'e-fu.  In "Uncovering the Treasure", Stephen Hwa quotes Jou, Tsung Hwa.  From: "The Tao of  Tai Chi Chuan, The Second Stage".  "The hallmark of the second stage is the use of the torso method.  Torso method is characterized by use of the body, specifically the waist and spine, to initiate and empower the movements of the arms and legs...Only those who reach this stage can truly be said to be practicing Tai Chi, yet these are few indeed."

See the video link above:

Dialogue and notes from video

Master Hwa: Yesterday we talked about how to get out of the "grabbing". Now in that case you do talk about moves.  This is so important because people will grab you. There are quite a number of moves in the form where one can learn to get out of the grabbing. For example, this one where you punch, people grab you, you turn the arm to release the grab. The other hand slides up the arm like this to get their hand off you. Even this move right before diagonal brush knee, where you rotate the arm to get out of a grab could be useful.  

When you turn the arm in this manner as people grab you, you are turning on this axis.  Turning on that axis, you have an advantage in leverage.  This is because you are turning on this very short axis. So, even against a more powerful hand you can still turn. Then you get to the point where it opens and you can get out of the grab. Then you remember I talked about the rotation of the arm in other moves and you can get out of a grab there as well, this is so important. 

You know, you will encounter grabbing, and you need to counter it and you need to do it fast. You need to do it fast but properly before someone gets a solid grip on you. In order to get out of it you want to do something immediately.

Student:  "I thought I saw you press a point on his hand on your DVD"

Master Hwa:  Right, right, but that is kind of like this which comes from the move in the form when he grabs you. I press a little bit and then I am turning my arm to release it. Well, we practiced that with Pete who is a wrestler and he has a very strong grip. That is how we develop and put it to good use.  I find this with my nephew who is 22 years old, 6'4", a wrestler and very strong.  So he wants to get hold of my hand so he can get me on the ground.  So practicing with him, he just cannot get hold of my hand. So you know lots of people in martial arts also come from the weight lifting room.  They are very strong and they want to grab you. Actually, he is my grand-nephew.

Student:  "How does Tai Chi do against Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?"

Master Hwa: You know...this is all individual. It is individual because when we practice the form we can reach a certain stage where this is called "mastery". In other words, with such "mastery", you can do the form, where every move is internal.  You can do the movements and you don't have to think. So, at that stage, you have "mastery" of the form. 

But with martial arts applications there really is no such "mastery".  I mean to say that it is endless. Martial art applications are endless. So it is hard to compare when it is so together.

Except at a time when the first Tai Chi master went to Beijing. He went to Beijing and he liked to challenge people. It is said that he beat up everybody. He even makes insistence that other masters fight with him so he can prove it.  He just wanted to try it out on other martial arts. So in that sense, and at that time, he did win.

The other thing to consider at that time is that people did not know about Tai Chi. You see that is another thing, people may not have developed a way to counteract the Tai Chi.

Now if you know Tai Chi like in the fight between Wu Gong Yee and the other guy (White Crane's Chan Hak Fu).  Now, both sides know each other's art very well. So, I'm sure they developed  a strategy to counteract the opponent's strength. Now the other guy, if you watch the video, and you Jim, you watch it many times. 

Student: "Yes, that is right".

So the guy changed the way of his external martial art. He did not use momentum, he did not use body momentum at all. He knew if he used body momentum, the Tai Chi was very good at counteracting  body momentum. So you see when you watch the video, he is just chopping with his arms, there is no body momentum, isn't that right?

Student:  "Yes, that is right".

So there is just flurry of arms without any body momentm, keeping the body momentum to a minimum or none at all. Certainly in that way he cannot develop all the power and so forth. So at least he tried to avoid being put on the ground by Wu Gong Yee. 

So you hear many people nowdays they don't think Wu is using Tai Chi or that the fight was bad, or they don't know what they are doing. So you cannot blame him, for in that case, he cannot be using Tai Chi.  Once again you see the guy is not using body momentum so how should Wu use Tai Chi, OK? 

 People watch that tape, and they say, how come, and Wu should have used Tai Chi.

So there is no momentum on the part of the guy, just flurry of arms and so with every chop Wu has to block. So also notice Wu is using the edge of his hand to block.  He is hitting the guy on his inside forearms and after awhile the guys arms  get tired...his arms are being hit on inside forearm muscle right there. 

Note: Little known details after the fight as revealed in the "Pivot" article show some interesting things.  Chan Hak Fu had actual arm injury which he showed the artist Lo Pak.  He had multiple bruises.  Chan told him:  "Don't think that I can not beat an old man but this Mr. Wu is a different matter and not such a simple matter". "His light chops like a "baby's fist" caused all these bruises".

Wu Gong Yee on the other hand was to show his disciples his dentures and say: "I wore these dentures into the ring, had I been hit, the dentures would have fallen out".  Wu was asked what he used and he said "ban lan chui" (deflect, parry and punch) which has many variations, but everything depends on how the opponent is moving in determining how you should move".

It has been explained in "pivot" that in later interview Chan Hak Fu stated the newspapers of the time wrote such controversy that stirred the fires for the fight in the first place. 

As Master Hwa states and shows, the fight probably looks very dry to the lay person.  We are raised on a diet of the spectacular in movies and TV so that fight looked "unappetizing". As Master Hwa shows with his own chops, the two palms of Wu would go from out to in, from low to upward to intercept Chan Hak Fu's fists.

It is also interesting that people find the fight boring in light of today's movies and TV.  Students of the time reported being terrified at the sounds of the fight.  One could hear the cracking sound of the hits.  People passed out in the audience, blood was flowing so much from Chan Hak Fu's nose that it could not be stopped.  For those that doubt the efficacy of Tai Chi or the "boring" fight, it would seem that it still and perhaps even moreso bears out the adage "there are no winning moves, there are only winning executions of those moves".

Internal Discipline "Folding Movement"

Excerpted  and some editing from "Uncovering the Treasure, Classical Tai Chi's Path to Health & Energy" by Stephen Hwa:

Please go to this link:
Internal Discipline Folding Movement Video Link

The folding move involves only one side of the body; but in this case it is not the entire side (includes legs which is shown in the photo above) which would be known as "hand follows foot , elbow follows knee", so please do not confuse this with that movement

This is just the upper quadrant of the body moving/folding as a unit. It is a QUARTER-BODY move.  In the case shown in the video, the right side of the body is folding or unfolding by keeping the left side of the body stationary.  The stationary part provides support, some of the power for the move but the lower 2 quadrants (legs) provide grounding.  The Right side of the body is yang, the left side of the body is yin.  The Yin-Yang junction is at the spine. One can visualize that the spine is a hinge, so each side of the torso, down through the buttocks is like a door which folds or unfolds using that hinge.  If the leg was involved in the movement, it would be a HALF-BODY move.

Even though only a quarter of the body is moving it is still an important example of how to make a move but still keep a portion (in this case 3/4 of the body) still.  It is also of importance as an example of how to make a move but keep a significant portion of the body alignment intact.  Whether half body or quarter body, whether the leg moves with it or not it can only be achieved when the turning power comes from the waist and the entire back's muscles.

If this is done correctly , one will achieve a continuous energy flow in the body.  It is a "neigong" exercise. It is tailor made to be a "silk reeling exercise" which might be defined as a continuous symmetrical simple internal movement or movements.  Doing this, one will be able to learn gradually how to move with internal discipline and enjoy the sensation of internal energy circulation. This exercise emphasizes the stimulation of muscles, tendons and blood flow along the spine and the back.  Those who practice this regularly experience a sense of rejuvenation and improved well being.  If one has spare moments during the day, particularly if the exercise can be carried out in a casual and relaxed mood, there will be more chance for the subconscious to play a part.  The ultimate objective is to learn internal movements like this in more or less a piecemeal fashion then integrate them into the Form play.