Classical Tai Chi and the reality of its application

Video Link to dialogue



In  "Pivot", (Qi Journal,  Autumn 2002) Y.L. Yip and Leroy Clark stated that Wu's Tai Chi was called "The Solar Plexus School" .  "Pivot" was a lengthy article in Qi Journal about the 1950's fight between Wu Kung-i and Ch'en K'e-fu.  In "Uncovering the Treasure", Stephen Hwa quotes Jou, Tsung Hwa.  From: "The Tao of  Tai Chi Chuan, The Second Stage".  "The hallmark of the second stage is the use of the torso method.  Torso method is characterized by use of the body, specifically the waist and spine, to initiate and empower the movements of the arms and legs...Only those who reach this stage can truly be said to be practicing Tai Chi, yet these are few indeed."

See the video link above:

Dialogue and notes from video

Master Hwa: Yesterday we talked about how to get out of the "grabbing". Now in that case you do talk about moves.  This is so important because people will grab you. There are quite a number of moves in the form where one can learn to get out of the grabbing. For example, this one where you punch, people grab you, you turn the arm to release the grab. The other hand slides up the arm like this to get their hand off you. Even this move right before diagonal brush knee, where you rotate the arm to get out of a grab could be useful.  

When you turn the arm in this manner as people grab you, you are turning on this axis.  Turning on that axis, you have an advantage in leverage.  This is because you are turning on this very short axis. So, even against a more powerful hand you can still turn. Then you get to the point where it opens and you can get out of the grab. Then you remember I talked about the rotation of the arm in other moves and you can get out of a grab there as well, this is so important. 

You know, you will encounter grabbing, and you need to counter it and you need to do it fast. You need to do it fast but properly before someone gets a solid grip on you. In order to get out of it you want to do something immediately.

Student:  "I thought I saw you press a point on his hand on your DVD"

Master Hwa:  Right, right, but that is kind of like this which comes from the move in the form when he grabs you. I press a little bit and then I am turning my arm to release it. Well, we practiced that with Pete who is a wrestler and he has a very strong grip. That is how we develop and put it to good use.  I find this with my nephew who is 22 years old, 6'4", a wrestler and very strong.  So he wants to get hold of my hand so he can get me on the ground.  So practicing with him, he just cannot get hold of my hand. So you know lots of people in martial arts also come from the weight lifting room.  They are very strong and they want to grab you. Actually, he is my grand-nephew.

Student:  "How does Tai Chi do against Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?"

Master Hwa: You know...this is all individual. It is individual because when we practice the form we can reach a certain stage where this is called "mastery". In other words, with such "mastery", you can do the form, where every move is internal.  You can do the movements and you don't have to think. So, at that stage, you have "mastery" of the form. 

But with martial arts applications there really is no such "mastery".  I mean to say that it is endless. Martial art applications are endless. So it is hard to compare when it is so together.

Except at a time when the first Tai Chi master went to Beijing. He went to Beijing and he liked to challenge people. It is said that he beat up everybody. He even makes insistence that other masters fight with him so he can prove it.  He just wanted to try it out on other martial arts. So in that sense, and at that time, he did win.

The other thing to consider at that time is that people did not know about Tai Chi. You see that is another thing, people may not have developed a way to counteract the Tai Chi.

Now if you know Tai Chi like in the fight between Wu Gong Yee and the other guy (White Crane's Chan Hak Fu).  Now, both sides know each other's art very well. So, I'm sure they developed  a strategy to counteract the opponent's strength. Now the other guy, if you watch the video, and you Jim, you watch it many times. 

Student: "Yes, that is right".

So the guy changed the way of his external martial art. He did not use momentum, he did not use body momentum at all. He knew if he used body momentum, the Tai Chi was very good at counteracting  body momentum. So you see when you watch the video, he is just chopping with his arms, there is no body momentum, isn't that right?

Student:  "Yes, that is right".

So there is just flurry of arms without any body momentm, keeping the body momentum to a minimum or none at all. Certainly in that way he cannot develop all the power and so forth. So at least he tried to avoid being put on the ground by Wu Gong Yee. 

So you hear many people nowdays they don't think Wu is using Tai Chi or that the fight was bad, or they don't know what they are doing. So you cannot blame him, for in that case, he cannot be using Tai Chi.  Once again you see the guy is not using body momentum so how should Wu use Tai Chi, OK? 

 People watch that tape, and they say, how come, and Wu should have used Tai Chi.

So there is no momentum on the part of the guy, just flurry of arms and so with every chop Wu has to block. So also notice Wu is using the edge of his hand to block.  He is hitting the guy on his inside forearms and after awhile the guys arms  get tired...his arms are being hit on inside forearm muscle right there. 

Note: Little known details after the fight as revealed in the "Pivot" article show some interesting things.  Chan Hak Fu had actual arm injury which he showed the artist Lo Pak.  He had multiple bruises.  Chan told him:  "Don't think that I can not beat an old man but this Mr. Wu is a different matter and not such a simple matter". "His light chops like a "baby's fist" caused all these bruises".

Wu Gong Yee on the other hand was to show his disciples his dentures and say: "I wore these dentures into the ring, had I been hit, the dentures would have fallen out".  Wu was asked what he used and he said "ban lan chui" (deflect, parry and punch) which has many variations, but everything depends on how the opponent is moving in determining how you should move".

It has been explained in "pivot" that in later interview Chan Hak Fu stated the newspapers of the time wrote such controversy that stirred the fires for the fight in the first place. 

As Master Hwa states and shows, the fight probably looks very dry to the lay person.  We are raised on a diet of the spectacular in movies and TV so that fight looked "unappetizing". As Master Hwa shows with his own chops, the two palms of Wu would go from out to in, from low to upward to intercept Chan Hak Fu's fists.

It is also interesting that people find the fight boring in light of today's movies and TV.  Students of the time reported being terrified at the sounds of the fight.  One could hear the cracking sound of the hits.  People passed out in the audience, blood was flowing so much from Chan Hak Fu's nose that it could not be stopped.  For those that doubt the efficacy of Tai Chi or the "boring" fight, it would seem that it still and perhaps even moreso bears out the adage "there are no winning moves, there are only winning executions of those moves".

"Re-creating" the One Inch Punch

https://youtu.be/P8GEGEqVECQ?si=tUybAnCX2wMG2is2

Link to Bruce Lee's "one-inch punch" video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZzleh-jxgk

Link to Classical Tai Chi one-inch punch

While visiting Master Stephen Hwa at his home in Florida, he knocked on the door of his second apartment and said, "Have you eaten yet?" He then came in, sat with me, and talked about Fajin. He told me about the one-inch punch: "...all materials have a "time constant" in their elasticity ."

A time constant is the time that represents the speed with which a particular system can respond to change. It is typically equal to the time a specified parameter takes to vary by a specific factor. In the DVD "Tao of Martial Applications," he hit Tom Kostusiak with a one-inch punch. It hit with so much force and so much speed that it created a "time delay " (irrespective of the "time constant").

The Barrie Ryuesi Karate Club, Barrie, Ontario, Canada, posted a discussion and video of Master Hwa's demonstration on their fajin web page. I discussed this with them here, and their comments are in the quotations. I am JR. Thank you, Barrie Ryuesi Karate.

Barrie discussion

"Here is quite a good and believable demonstration of fajin, or the explosive delivery of internal energy, by Stephen Hwa, who teaches taijiquan at the University of Buffalo and in Fairport, New York."

JR: Master Hwa does not still teach at the University of Buffalo or Fairport but is at info@classicaltaichi.com. Presently, he teaches in Pompano Beach, Florida, where (while in the springtime of his life) he enjoys Florida's perpetual springtime.

Barrie: "He shows the "one-inch punch" made famous by Bruce Lee (see video link), who at the 1964 Longbeach championships knocks someone into a chair without any windup. His fist started an inch away from the target.

JR: I think it is a matter of opinion whether Bruce Lee does the punch "without any windup ."You will need to watch the video link: Notice his fist starts close to the man's chest (near solar plexus?), and you see him touch the man's chest a couple of times before delivering power. Looking carefully, you can see the man sway gently as Bruce's fist makes contact several times. As he touches the man's chest, Bruce adjusts his foot stance with his back foot pointing almost 90 degrees out. Bruce also pushes off from his back foot and this is Momentum Force. His back foot leaves the ground and this guy s reminiscent of how the feet move under momentum force when one is walking.

Barrie: "Master Hwa shows how it is possible to generate this power using the taiji "hollow-fist punch." He explains that other people have recreated this but use external" or purely muscular power. In his demonstration, he has his "hollow fist with pointed knuckles" pressing against the pad held to another person's midsection. His student, Sifu James Roach, holds his bicep and forearm to feel his muscular contraction.

JR: With the "hollow-fist punch," the reasoning is the same as why he maintained a relaxed arm. Bruce's fist, however, is clenched tightly, and the arm extends almost entirely. With such a clenched fist, the arm cannot maintain relaxation. Try this yourself, clench the fist tightly, and notice its effect on your arm and body. The use of muscular power is evident in Bruce's punch. Such preliminary muscle tension is called "external" power. It is what Master Hwa called a precursor to "ordinary force ."When the punch is delivered, one can see him pushing from the back foot. The force generated from external limbs such as arms and legs is much longer and cannot be compacted into such a burst as possible with a "hollow fist" and relaxed arm.

Barrie." He knocks back the man holding the pad with seemingly little effort, who feels a sudden power surge. The man holding Hwa's arm says it is relaxed before and after the punch, with only brief tension as the power delivers to the opponent. Hwa explains that a tense arm will significantly reduce the force if the arm tenses before the power is delivered."

JR: The Barrie comment "knocks back the man" is more detailed than the appearance would have us believe. The details are because of Tom's body structure and Master Hwa's. Ideally, one has to have a better body structure than the receiver. Bruce Lee has a body structure is incomparably better than the receiver, who stands flat-footed with feet together. Master Hwa's body structure is poor, but Tom's is better. The "reaction force" (Newton's Law of Action and Reaction) would have pushed Master Hwa back instead of Tom IF he had used "ordinary force ." He uses Nejin, which goes out like a whip with no tension that would be affected by the "reaction force ."After all, Newton cannot be wrong.

To explain this better, we refer to the term "Peng, " one of the 13 movements of Tai Chi. Peng has a significant component, an uplifting force for the most part. It lifted Tom partially off the ground, and then a minor forward force (the knockback portion) knocked him back. In this case, M. Hwa's tight, compact, and upright stance is advantageous as an utterly relaxed arm and body absorb the reaction force.

Because of the pad, Tom did not receive all the "explosive" energy possible. As Master Hwa demonstrated on an amateur boxer (familiar with body punches), even a force of reduced power with no pad collapses the receiver (Uncovering the Treasure, pp.109).

The "tensing" of the arm starts at the split second the hollow fist reaches the opponent, and resistance closes it. Also, Bruce uses the whole fist, whereas Master Hwa forms the knuckles into an open fist. The analogy is like that of "holding a robin's egg." One can imagine that clenching the fist before impact or even during would crack the egg, would it not? The hollow fist has pointed knuckles that are not tightly held, and it is designed to strike at soft tissue and not a bony part where it would hurt the fist.

The stiffening is a natural response to the feedback of a sensation of resistance. A side note to this is whether the opponent or target is like, or one might say, analogous to, a "creampuff" or a "side of beef ."In the latter, the resistance will be instantaneous, thus providing immediate feedback to such a pronounced sensation of resistance. If "creampuff" has no resistance, there will be little or no power delivery.

I had that discussion with Master Hwa, a Ph.D. chemical engineer (which got me interested) about terms like "time constant." My layman understands that all materials have a "time constant" in their elasticity. Well, in this case, the force is coming at Tom (as Master Hwa later says) with so much power and so much speed it creates a "time delay" (irrespective of the "time constant"?) in Tom's body going backward. Measuring how far the punch penetrates during and after the pad is only about 2 or 3 inches of compact movement.

Regardless, it still penetrates Tom's body, and one might say completely. I call it an "implosion" on the inside of Tom's body instead of an "explosion" on the outside. It is a "spike" of power because, like a spike, the opponent's body cannot escape the full force. He receives the whole force before his body moves back; so much for "pulling the punch."

One must learn from the Tai Chi form; one cannot get "internal discipline" and cultivate "internal energy," Fajin, by external movement. In all fairness to Bruce Lee, he might have pushed the opponent not to hurt him, thus diminishing his force. After all, he did not use a pad, and the potential for injury was great because his fist looked like it was spot on the solar plexus. Either way, you can come to your own conclusions. I humbly hope I have provided some additional observations based on my experience as a practitioner/teacher of the art and as the individual lightly touching Master Hwa's arm.

"....Classical Wu Style Tai Chi with other martial arts..."

Master Hwa's Florida "Roots"
"Mastering others is strength": There is no end to the use of strength and there will always be others who are stronger, others who can learn to counter your strength, others to compare yourself to, in light of what is said in the Blog, why engage in such comparisons, there is only one of you however, "Mastering yourself is true power". 

"How can such a soft, slow moving Tai Chi Form be preparation for martial arts?". I guess some people missed this chapter in Master Hwa's book, for he says this and then explains.  At about 4:30 of the video we hear even a long time student repeat the same refrain:  "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu?". You can hear the  refrain echoed in a thousand Youtube Videos and in those same videos you will sometimes hear the fighting  capability of the individual asking the question. Speaking only for myself, I have never been bothered by this question AND for myself there are far more important questions I ask of Master Hwa.  I flew to Florida over the weekend of May 11 (the Jet Blue tickets were my birthday present from my wife Barbara) and spent a great, long weekend visiting with my teacher Master Stephen Hwa and Eva.

After I wrote thank you emails, I sent a hand written card of thanks to Master Hwa and Eva for their wonderful generosity and hospitality.  While I was there, he would come to the apartment at least 2 times a day and spend hours at a time with me on my form, one might say I lived with him.  We also ate all our meals together, we took walks together, the training went on nonstop. I asked question after question about my form and he never wavered in giving answers about my form.   I had hour after hour to both question and do my form for him.  Not once in all of that time did I think of saying: "How does Tai Chi fare against (insert your  martial art)?" 

Perhaps it is because I finally realize in my heart, there is no end to it and more importantly, I cannot put an end to it...for it truly is endless.  How do people miss hearing him say: "There are no winning strategies, applications, etc. (insert your martial art), there are only winning executions of those strategies, applications, etc."? Listen to  4:30 of the video in response to: "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu"?   Here is the link to the Youtube video from a workshop in 2011: "...Classical Wu Style Tai Chi with other martial arts..."


Master Hwa: "You know this is all individual. You know, we practice the form and we can reach a certain stage and this is called Mastery. You know you can learn and do the form so that every move is internal, that you don't have to think (about what comes next) . You know at that stage, you are mastering the form, BUT with martial art application, there will be no mastery.  With martial art applications there is endless improvement.  So it's harder to compare one to the other.  "

"You know when the first Tai Chi master  went to Beijing most Tai Chi was in the countryside, and people don't know that much. So he went to Beijing, liked to challenge people and beat up everybody. So he went to one master there and wanted to challenge him, "Oh, I know you are better than me now" the master said.  The challenger said "Please let's just do some". He just wanted to try it out on other martial artists.  Sincerely, not to just build the name, so he begged the guy. "Let's do something"

"So in that sense, at that time, he beat up everybody, there is no other martial art that can beat him, Certainly at that time, consider your knowledge, that is another thing, people do not know about Tai Chi. So people may not have developed a way to counteract it."

"Now if you know Tai Chi like in the fight between Wu Gong Yi and the other guy. Now both sides know each others art very well.  Now, I'm sure they both develop a strategy to counteract the other guy's strength. Now the other guy, if you watch the video (click here for LINK). Now I know (pointing to Jim) you watch it many times, you find (the other guy an "external" White Crane martial art) he changed the way, in other words, he doesn't use momentum, body momentum at all. He knows the Tai Chi is really good to counteract momentum, body momentum. Body momentum, that is what Tai Chi is really good at.  And he just chopped away, just using his arms, so there is no body momentum...remember that? There was just a flurry of arms without any body momentum. Certainly in that way, he cannot develop all the power and so forth. At least he tried to avoid being thrown by the Tai Chi. In that case Wu Gong Yi is not using Tai Chi, you cannot blame him, because the guy is not using body momentum. 

So at that time (and even today on Youtube) people are saying how come Wu is not using Tai Chi?  So he is not using Tai Chi and so everytime, he has to block.  So he is using this (side of the hand)  and hitting him (on the arms) and after awhile.  So after awhile, the guys arms got tired because the muscle got hit.  So he, himself, goes in and hit his nose (he walked into Wu's blocks and his nose started bleeding profusely).  You cannot blame him for not using Tai Chi because the other guy does not use body momentum (he moves, I move, if he does not move, I do not move).  So the guy did this with his arms and Wu did this to block him, block his chops. One of his hands he cannot raise or something."

Knock yourself over with your own "holding pattern"

From the web page of Master Stephen Hwa in 2005 and updated in 2012 for this Blog: "I am pleased to announce and congratulate the first certified teacher of Classical Tai Chi is Jim Roach of Buffalo, NY. He is extremely dedicated and accomplished. Jim has another background in such diverse external styles as Karate and Tae Kwon Do but Jim began his Tai Chi study in 1976. He subsequently studied Yang and Wu's Style of Tai Chi, even while he was studying Tae Kwon Do in Buffalo. He spent much of his time traveling back and forth to Toronto Canada over the years at least once a week, sometimes more to study with very notable teachers. Jim had the privilege to study with and become a disciple of the Great-grandson of legendary Grandmaster Wu Chien Chuan, Master Wu Kwong Yu.  


Jim became actively engaged in study with Master Hwa in April of 2003.  Since that time, Jim has engaged in numerous private instruction classes with Master Hwa as well as group classes. He also assisted and participated in many of the scenes of the DVD "Tao of Martial Applications".  In addition, he appears in several photographs of the book "Uncovering the Treasure".  After only a short time, Jim  was (to paraphrase Master Hwa ) "fascinated with the underlying principles that unified Classical Tai Chi’s seemingly complex movements." 


In addition to  Ken-Ton community education classes where Jim taught under Master Hwa's personal and direct supervision (Master Hwa was in attendance to monitor Jim's classes). Jim is actively seeking out experienced Tai Chi or other Martial Art students in order to conduct further workshops and classes in Classical Tai Chi. While he was an employee of the U.S. Customs Service, Jim conducted self-defense classes at the Federal Building in Buffalo, NY as well as Customs Inspectors at the Peace Bridge.. He has also conducted workshops and personal instruction in Tai Chi to continuing education programs at local public schools, hospitals as well as medical professionals. He has also taught Tai Chi to Karate Instructors and Karate Studios in Buffalo."  Master Stephen Hwa

You can visit his webpage: Classical Tai Chi of Buffalo

Once in awhile I have taught  Tai Chi  to students that have previously studied Tai Chi, Karate, Kung Fu, etc. I have  students now that have studied both Tai Chi and "hard" styles as well.  One of those students is still involved with studying Wing Chun along with his study of Classical Tai Chi.  I recall teaching someone who owned his own Karate Studio and who had become a martial arts legend of sorts.  He saw me practicing the Wu's Sword Form and asked to learn it.  I said I would teach it if he would learn the Wu's style 108 long from from me. He appeared in the “Inside Kung Fu” magazine because of his prowess in several other martial arts and was versed in many weapons forms.   Grandmaster Young Wabu who Master Hwa  states was versed in many martial arts as well as being a master of Pekkwar Monkey boxing when he met Wu Chien Chuan.   The Karate teacher unfortunately did not stick with Tai Chi as did Grandmaster Young with Wu Chien Chuan or learn the sword, as he stated he was “bored” learning the long form.

I noticed when I taught the Karate teacher however that he constantly had his shoulders in a "holding pattern" of being hunched forward and held very tightly.  I also noticed it was very difficult for him to "release" the holding pattern to drop the shoulders, in fact I never saw him able to do it at all.  This gave his back a constant hunched appearance, causing the chin to jut out.  The hunching and tightening seemed to extend to the lower torso where he was unable to loosen the buttocks to straighten the back and thus free the waist to turn freely. 

In thinking of "ingrained" muscular tension as a holding pattern, I also came across this message from a 2004 post in the Classical Tai Chi Forum on a student's previous experience with other arts and its effect on learning Classical Tai Chi:

"I am coming from a karate background.  For me it (classical tai chi ) is like learning karate all over again. Learning how to walk, turn, block and strike. The 'square form' is much easier for me to follow. It is more familiar to me. Coming from a 'hard' style, I find it hard to relax as I do the form. It is ingrained to tense as the blocks or strikes are applied. I can find many practical martial moves in the form. Understand that in karate katas not every move is explained as to application unless you ask the instructor, 'how is this used'? All blocks are also strikes, and all strikes are also blocks. To me it seems Tai Chi is a form of martial arts Qi Gong. This is great as my body can no longer tolerate a 'hard' style.

A comment on “Kata” by Master Hwa from the context of “Yi” in another Forum: “ External martial arts such as Karate also practice a solo form called Kata. Kata allows the practitioner to study movements at full power and speed and allows the student to move with the enemy in mind. So, both Tai Chi form and Kata is practiced with “Yi”. But, Kata is practiced with a tensed up arm moving with power and speed: while Tai Chi is practiced with a relaxed arm and moving at a slow speed. The “Yi” in Tai Chi is therefore purely mental.”

I have a suspicion however that tensed up body parts are not strictly the domain of Karate practitioners. I see them over and over again in students who do not study other martial arts.  I find many, many students who state they only want Tai Chi for "health".  Yet, many of these practitioners are so tense, it looks like their extremities are literally tied into holding patterns. Although, I think in the case of karate there are a number of them with such repetitive movement in Katas where it eventually becomes what is called a “holding pattern”.  In other words their arms, shoulders, backs, chests, etc. get more or less locked into a detrimental position.  I speak not as just a Tai Chi practitioner but as a former Karate and Tae Kwon Do practitioner with an advanced belt.

Master Hwa has talked about how the practitioner needs to not “tense up” during push hands training.  I vividly remember my own push hands training with Yang Style then later at the Wu’s Academy in Toronto.  I was always urged to “sitback” in order to loosen my back and waist, with danger of “getting pushed” ever present.  I was told over and over to "relax", "relax", "you have got to relax or you will get pushed". At Wu’s Academy this often consisted of a free style where one would end up on the floor or bounced off a wall.  This was not the “mean spirited” actions of my fellow student, it was my own body tension and they really only had to apply very little of a very gentle “push” in order to send me flying.  Often I found myself on the floor or slammed against the wall because I was retreating with a tensed up body and tripped myself up…the other practitioner had not even pushed me.

“Holding patterns?”  In all the times I was “sent flying” I did not learn "why". Flailing one's extremities will do nothing for showing where one has excess muscular tension.  It has only been through the study of the Classical Tai Chi Form and Internal Discipline that the fog has lifted. It is anathema to correct practice to use external movements while attempting an internal movement.  It is anathema to correct practice to use extraneous movement while attempting internal movement.  Extraneous movement, tensing a shoulder here, tensing an arm there, etc.  occurs because one simply cannot sense it happening...and  I eventually came to learn I had some extremity that was held tensed or even crooked.  This extremity sent tension into the entire body and provided an easy target, as I proved over and over, ostensibly even knocking my own self to the ground with no one touching me…just my own fear and tension doing the job.