Not a mystery to be good at martial applications

Dear Master Hwa,

"I have become impatient with the slowness of the learning curve regarding Classical Tai Chi for this reason alone: the forms playing does not seem to be leading to martial application, and there does not seem to be any partners out this way who know Classical Tai that I can practice.

So, I am enrolling in a Wing Chun class through a park district close to where I live. My first class was this past Wednesday, and I asked for an opportunity to use what I have learned in the Forms playing with the Sifu that is teaching the class. Here is the scenario. He asked me to use a boxing jab to try to attack him. He became aggressive immediately by using a barrage of strikes, blocks, and forward motion. I used circular defensive arm moves while playing Repulse Monkey. I could feel my internal energy in my Dan Tien and quarter body moves. However, Sifu was able to tag me in the face. In blocking his punches, I received a large bruise on the top of my left hand. We did not have padded gloves.  OK, so here is the question. How did he get inside me so quickly?  It was all a blur. Now, given I was not as aggressive as I could have been. I did pull back. But still, he got close to me very quickly, and stuck to me. It was like I was pulling him round trying to free up some space between us. He had the advantage. He was fighting on the inside before I could do anything effective."

When I used Fair Lady Works the Shuttle as he squared off with me, my ward off was good using the turning of the waist and arms connected to the upper body while lower body stayed rooted. But he grabbed my T-Shirt as he went in the other direction and used the power I used to move away from him after the ward off as a way of sticking to me. He could have hit me in the temple, or in the back of the head. But it was a demonstration I had asked for and so he did not.  I did knock him off balance because he was double waited at the time. That felt good.

In another demonstration, Sifu wanted to prove a point that he could finger jab me in the sternum before I could do anything about it. He was lightening fast. I was not fast enough to block his incoming force. Probably because my reflexes are not as highly developed as his. Thinking back, I could have turned my upper body quadrant away from his incoming force, but didn't because he wanted to square of with him. I simply followed instructions.

Here is where you come in Master Hwa. I need your concerted effort in analyzing what happened. I know that you where not there and did not have an opportunity to observe my form and delivery. But you have observed my playing the Forms both in Florida and Buffalo. you also have your own experience and wisdom in how you might have handle these situations.  

Don't pull any punches :)  The above could be a good subject matter in one of your Forums e.g. how is it that we are employing martial application along with our Form playing.

By the way, how does it take to be a Tai Chi fighter? Have you had sparring experience?

Hope all is well with you and your family.

Jim 

Hi James: There is no mystery to be good at martial art application. This is discussed in my book and video.

You need to go through three steps:

1. Develop internal energy or power through Form practice, so that one can deliver the power at any angle and position.

2. Practice the form such that the ability of delivery becomes instinctive, no need to think.

3. Practice push hand and sparing to develop sensitivity and finesse.

As I recall when you visited me in Florida, you were not close to master step 1. You were able to use internal at several moves but not all angles. From your description of your sparing experience, you still need to think when you move. No wonder you were always one step behind, and being controlled by the opponent.

Step 3 needs partner to practice. There is no short cut to that.

I hope I have answered your questions.

Stephen Hwa

"There are no winning moves, only winning execution of moves"...Stephen Hwa

Hi James,

I studied at Wu's Tai Chi Academy in Toronto for some time, then I met Stephen Hwa and my Tai Chi got better.  I was doing Tae Kwon Do at the time  at Wu's and my skills were not great, nor were my Tai Chi fighting skills in the studio.  On the street however, I was able to defend myself quite adequately as I had the misfortune of being attacked/mugged on several occasions. I found in Tae Kwon Do some different experiences than I found at Wu's.  For instance, with Tai Chi I found  myself in situations where I ended up grappling but in Tae Kwon Do   I did not. 

I had quite a number of occasions to spar in both arts and even to use Tae Kwon Do against Tai Chi people. I find myself thinking here of Grandmaster Young Wabu and his expression of the difficulty he had in forgetting the external arts he learned.  In other words, I think he felt it did not help his Tai Chi. I found that there were some Tai Chi people that could not deal with my kicks and there were some who could.  I found that there were some people who could deal with my punches and there were some who could not. I submit the following: To use Tai Chi against Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun, etc., etc. is not a matter of proving which art is "better".  It is a matter of which opponent is "better" at the art they are using. I believe there is an adage that says: “It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.” 

― Mark Twain


Why not get some Wing Chun people to spar against you while you do Tai Chi, why "throw out the baby with the bath water"? In Tai Chi one does not use "boxing jab to attack him", it is a pure defensive art, why not an agreeable "sparring" situation, where he uses a boxing jab to attack you?  Anyway, all this proves is he is better at Wing Chun than you are at Tai Chi, not Wing Chun is better than Tai Chi. I don't wish to analyze your synopsis any more because it reads the same throughout.

If one wants to get better at Tai Chi,  it requires sensitivity to opponents movement, ability to ting jin, stick to opponent and to have  intelligence under pressure.   I see no reason why any of that cannot be maintained into old age.  Even Western Boxing's clinch (before it became the disgraceful stalling tactic it is now) could be said to have once relied on some semblance of sensitivity. Even with that the bout between Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes went to grappling and trapping range 10 times in the first three minutes...once every 18 seconds. This means "practicing push hands and sparring to develop sensitivity and finesse" with a variety of opponents. 

 How can anyone expect to develop sticking from just practicing the form?   I see no place where Master Hwa promises a "flowering" of self defense ability. Additionally, no one ever promised folks "Pie in the Sky" in Classical Tai Chi and on the contrary the limitations of what we do have been spelled out even more than I got at Wu's.  Learning to stick to opponent in close quarters   This step requires willing and trusted partner and ones own willing participation. How to learn to spar with Tai Chi, particularly  if one can find a Wing Chun partner , particularly one who is physically stronger then they will find the guy will just ram down your centerline and smash you out of the way...like what you describe. Then you have  to stick with his smashing, not run away.

As one gets older, they are no longer going to be the fastest or strongest so they have to rely on feeling out the opponent.  If one can't beat with speed then you  have to stick.  This does not mean you are not going to get hit.  In his fight with a Hard Style opponent, Wu Gong Yi was limited by rules not to stick, if he could then I think things would be much different and perhaps not "called a draw". 

If one is moving from Tai Chi to Wing Chun having some idea of the difference between Wing Chun and Tai Chi comes with research before starting.  My student Anh Le does Wing Chun and also spars with people who do mixed Martial Arts.  He also admits there are things that he personally can do and cannot do and although he is defeated, he does not blame either Tai Chi or Wing Chun, he has enough reasoning ability to put the onus squarely on his own shoulders. He states that Chi Sao in Wing Chun is done with arms that move independently of the torso in straight line fashion and yin yang junctions are at the shoulder in contrast to that of Tai Chi. 

It is interesting that chi sao in Wing Chun which to the uninitiated "looks" like Tai Chi push hands emphasizes economy of movement and decrease in circular action by centering the elbow in straight line arm movements. On the contrary, we  see  centering of elbow in tight compact form with a subsequent increase in circular action.  If one does not posess number 1 where internal power can be delivered at any angle, much less from one's own center how on earth can one expect to attack an opponent when one cannot even protect oneself by sticking, which comes from push hands which have  never even done?

You wish me to be honest, not pull punches, I would say get a  "grip", so to speak.  How can one  with  reasoning that Tai Chi is not good enough, also expect to reconcile the attitude "I'm here to learn to kick him in the *&%$" that I heard at the workshop.  How does that reconcile   with "He who knows much is learned; he who knows himself is wise. He who rules others has the power of muscles; he who rules himself has strength?"  Once again, who is attacking you?  Do you get mugged just walking out the door, simplest martial art would be the art of "getting out of Dodge"...move your belongings to another section of town, I see no one else but you, where are the muggers?   Wishful thinking and an   "I wannabe" attitude , to learn to "kill 10 people at one fell swoop" from any martial art...ain't going to happen. If 10 guys jump you, then hope they have mercy.

What do you think about my adding a Wing Chung Traditional Wooden Dummy along with my learning the 108 Classical Tai Chi Forms?

What do you think my about adding a Free Standing Makiwara Board to my regimen?

The impetus for my questions has to do with my desire to move into martial application. I do not know that mastering the Forms is going to be enough for me at this point. I liked what I observed at the training in Buffalo last summer between you and a student regarding "Carrying the Tiger to the Mountain."

I have been practicing Classical Tai Chi for 7 plus years, and am on the 98th Form, and anticipate finishing sometime in 2012. I feel alive, and competent when practicing Wudang Tiger Tail Short Staff, and powerful when palm striking and kicking a 4 x 4 free standing piece of wood outdoors. I have an appreciation for my adequate self defense skills in what I have learned in all these disciplines.

Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.

OK, you ask for "feedback" and I am not going to pull my punches, which by the way Tai Chi does not do anyway:

How do you figure a striking post will help?  If one cannot muster internal power for application, isn't this a weakness that is a priori to any "striking post"?  Want to get better?  Then develop internal power for application.  Other than that you are relegated to using external force which gives you no advantage over a more accomplished external martial artist, as you clearly illustrated.  Master Hwa tells me even some retired old ladies that he teaches seem to enjoy using their newly acquired semi-internal power to push people around.

To paraphrase Master Hwa's statement about "winning moves":  "There are no winning martial arts, only winning execution of martial arts" , in other words it is the size of the fight in the dog, not the dog that is in the fight.  

James R.

One Yin, One Yang

My own teacher of Classical Tai Chi would probably shrug his shoulders at my revelations here; no big deal, because he knows this already. But at the heart of it, I guess I will always talk as a "westerner" and seemingly be amazed by things, (as his wife Eva has said to me in so many words, we should rue the day when we stop learning) no matter how much Tai Chi I learn.

The Wu Style but more comprehensively Classical Tai Chi talks about "ting jin" and the sensitivity that enables it.   Undoubtedly at its finest it picks up even the most subtle sensations of an opponent's movement. Then, I feel there is our ''ting jin", our sensitivity  when it comes to our own bodies and our minds. Some would call this self-awareness, self-sensing, somatics, etc. It has become quite well accepted that calming the mind through Meditation can have good effects on one’s body.  What has not been well documented, much less accepted is the flip side on how calming the body can have good effects on the mind.  

In his book “Uncovering the Treasure”, p. 31, Stephen Hwa makes the case that mind and body have a relationship which proceeds from the  initial difficulty of learning and total engagement of body-mind. One is struggling to learn in the beginner’s stage, one has to think about everything they do, one has to memorize the movements.  The training then makes a progression toward disengagement of body and mind.  One has memorized the movements, one no longer has to think of what comes next or how to do things .  So this clearly differs from what the meditative traditions state when they say body and mind are inseparable and stay as “one” during Meditation itself. In one sense Tai Chi is similar to meditation with a starting point of “oneness” of body-mind but in Tai Chi the end result is what might be called disengagement of body-mind.

The result of this disengagement is that the mind, no longer having the difficult tasks to do, can simply monitor sensations of  stretching and energy circulation in the body itself. This is where the term “sensation” is joined with the idea of enjoyment;  but the idea of sensitivity to sensations along with  feedback from sensations is an overall prevailing theme. In Uncovering the Treasure, Dr. Hwa talks about the word "sensation" about 20 times, it is indeed quite important.  More than any other style of Tai Chi I studied, Classical Tai Chi teaches one to pick up on these sensations, the subtle signals of the whole body throughout the body, systematically and perseveringly.

In reflecting on this however, it occurs to me there is not only the enjoyment of the sensations of internal energy, there is also dissatisfaction with other sensations in the body. I talk to students about this on occasion both in my studio and Internet Forums.  Student's say during the playing of the form and then even afterward they notice areas of their body that are tight, achy, etc.  One would call these the negative sensations. 

Certainly mind and body are disengaged at advanced levels and one is playing the Tai Chi subconsciously, yet the mind is “still minding the store” by monitoring both enjoyment or satisfaction and  dissatisfaction.  As some exampIes:  I never used to give that much attention to my back, now I know of more areas where it is tight;I notice a plethora of areas in the body where things feel tight, tense, itchy, painful, etc.  Then the sensations seem to go beyond the tactile to sight, hearing, smell, etc. Even when I am through practicing, almost as though the mind is still working on a subconscious level,  I even have things like increased awareness of hunger, I feel hungrier, sounds seem clearer, lights seem brighter, etc.  

There is no doubt in my mind there is a greater diversity of signals on the negative things as well as the positive things; but are the "negatives" really negative, aren't they all just sensations after all? . Haven't we just interrupted the flow of internal  energy where mind and body were disengaged; now we find ourselves naming things?  I enjoy the sensations of internal energy, immensely.  I still sit on the couch, even after 8 years and I do what is called quarter body movement, I do this seemingly without thinking; my wife nudges me, "stop that, it is embarassing".   

 In understanding what happens when one begins to master the Tai chi however, the one disengages and becomes two;  body disengages from mind.  When body and mind are thusly disengaged of course we are doing Tai Chi; but what do we "hear" in regard to sensations?  We hear of sensations some of which we assign as negative, one is dissatisfied; then there is  what we assign as positive or  satisfied. Is it not  all "sensation" ; whether negative or positive, is there ever only one side to the coin?

When I started Tai Chi in the 70's, we all were kind of trapped in  Western hemisphere thinking.   Nowdays, parts of Tai Chi which used to be difficult to explain have become easier to explain but which of course many do not believe; mind and body are one, but in Tai Chi they disengage.  Nowdays, Buddhist monks come to the West and scientists study them, so the differentiation between East and West is slowly disappearing. In the 70's Rene Descarte's "turf deal" with the church (Cartesian Dualism) was dominating our understanding (we have a mind linked to a soul, which is also independent of our body). That illusion has faded with our study of the meditative “mind controls body” disciplines but what about “body controls mind” disciplines such as Tai Chi.

I taught Tai Chi to Therapists at the Veterans Hospital in Buffalo in the 70's. At that time we were getting the first wave of returning vets from Vietnam; some of those armed service personnel had very serious trauma. They could not  begin to relax; some lived in terror and they did not feel safe. What my Tai Chi students only partially realized at the time but what we now seem to know is those vets had sensations of combat imprinted in their bodies too. Scientists tell us  now that mind and memory are imprinted on the whole body;  their trauma is stored in their whole bodies.

I tend to think our  minds note every bit of information that is stored in our bodies, that  we are big memory banks. It is truly great to revel in the enjoyment of the "sensations" of internal energy as Master Hwa says. In some ways however, this is a mixed blessing because as I say, we seemingly also get more to complain about with increased sensitivity to all sensations. Take heart that it is a gradual process however, I have experienced it thusly but certainly more intensely with Classical Tai Chi with its emphasis on Internal Discipline.

Why are sensations so intense with Classical Tai Chi? I have done several other styles of Tai Chi and in none of them did I find  such intensity. I think this is largely attributable to what is referred to as   “one yin, one yang”.   As passed on from Wu Chien Chuan to Young Wabu it was the most important instruction he gave: “Every movement in Tai Chi Form has to have 2 complementary sides of the body, a moving part yang and a stationary part yin.  When the yin-yang junction is outside the body,the movement is external, when it is inside the body, it is an internal movement”.  The profundity of this statement never ceases to amaze me, for the more I can keep still , the deeper I can make that stillness, the movement itself becomes deeper, more intense.  This is referred to as "one yin, one yang".  With one yin one yang we attain greater and greater levels of intense sensation internally.  We refer to intense sensation in the core of the body; the long neglected torso where the internal organs are stored.  To reiterate,  that is greatly dependent on how much stillness I can achieve which is then coupled with movement  This is in sharp contrast to the commonly held notion that we get greater sensation simply from increased movement or being totally Yang.