Important Points of Classical Wu Style Tai Chi Push Hands

The following is the dialogue of the most recent Youtube video from Workshop 2011. The subject of the workshop is the basics of doing (click here) Classical Wu Style push hands.

• Master Stephen Hwa instructs, demonstrates and allows students to participate in the learning.  The subject includes what is referred to as non-competitive push hands.  Master Hwa demonstrates the importance of the following points:

1. Importance of going fully forward in any Tai Chi posture
2. The difficulties of going fully forward
3. How to counter being pulled over while forward
4. How to crimp or cramp up your opponent's posture
5. The importance of correct distancing and the difference it makes
6. The importance of sitting back fully
7. The importance of turning the body correctly
8. The role of the pelvis in correct push hands

The times correspond to the statement in the dialogue

0:41 Say for instance that he pulls me.
0:45 You see that is why you practice the form.
0:51 You want to be in this full forward position.
0:53 Lot of people in the beginning are afraid to go into that full forward position. They feel like they are tipping over or something.
1:04 Now if he pulls me like this, I can relax my shoulder...see that?
1:09 See how much I can do that (stretch at shoulder)
1:13 Now he is kind of cramped
1:17 Because I let that go
1:21 In these things a couple of inches make a difference
1:24 So when he pulls me, I give him a couple more inches...he is cramped
1:43 Now when he comes at me I want to be able to sit back as much as I can
1:50 So it is kind of like to 2 people competing, who can stretch more, who can sit back more
1:54 So now I can sit back more than he can stretch
2:02 Now if I turn too much like this, then he can just push sideways
2:14 If I keep the pelvis still, he cannot push me
2:19 It is square here, he cannot push me, but once I do this
2:29 Very very different isn't it?
2:30 So the ability to keep the pelvis fixed and turning has a huge impact in push hands
2:40 The ability to feel comfortable going forward and the ability to sit back has a huge impact on opponent
3:04 When you go outside to push hands with people, they may not follow any rules
3:13 Then there are the people who come through the rank of weight lifting rooms, with extreme strong upper body
3:25 What they first do is grab you with 2 hands
3:30 In that situation...you remember Peter is strong, right?
3:45 When they try to grab your hands, you have to be prepared.
3:50 Once I feel you grab my hands, I have to do this, I do not let you grab solidly
4:00 Once he grabs solidly, this is harder to do
4:10 So you can use this particular move in getting away from the grab
4:32 Now outside people will stand sideways like this
4:43 So if you come forward they are going to pull like this
5:04 Now to counter this you have to exploit the weakness but there are several ways to get around this.
5: 24 One way is you don't let me really grab you
5:26 The other way is they don't make a full grab, they grab you like this
5:44 Then you have to step forward quickly and then you can jam them
5:50 So my weak point is force coming this way from the side like this
6:05 If you let him pull like this, then you are sunk.  Remember a great 90% of people push hands like this ...one sided.
6:30 Then there is the other situation with people who always keep their body perpendicular to the ground.
6:40 Then it becomes like wrestling because I am always in the middle, no one wants to sit back.
7:20 Very frequently on the youtube you see people pushing and wrestling like this, no one wants to sit back
7:30 They don't want lean forward, they don't want to sitback, they are afraid
8:29 Just remember don't get your arms to close to your body
8:40 It is kind of a right angle with the arms
8:50 Don't turn your hip too much, it is unstable
9:20 Tucking is important, because when the force comes on to you, you will get this curve or bend in your back when you do not tuck.
9:35 So this bend will stop the force right in this zone
9:40 With a correct tuck the force starts transmitting downward through my leg
10: 00 Try to keep the body reasonably straight, fold at the pelvis here. This way you will have better turning ability
10:18 If you crunch too much forward, you cannot turn the body.

Classical Tai Chi and the reality of its application

Video Link to dialogue



In  "Pivot", (Qi Journal,  Autumn 2002) Y.L. Yip and Leroy Clark stated that Wu's Tai Chi was called "The Solar Plexus School" .  "Pivot" was a lengthy article in Qi Journal about the 1950's fight between Wu Kung-i and Ch'en K'e-fu.  In "Uncovering the Treasure", Stephen Hwa quotes Jou, Tsung Hwa.  From: "The Tao of  Tai Chi Chuan, The Second Stage".  "The hallmark of the second stage is the use of the torso method.  Torso method is characterized by use of the body, specifically the waist and spine, to initiate and empower the movements of the arms and legs...Only those who reach this stage can truly be said to be practicing Tai Chi, yet these are few indeed."

See the video link above:

Dialogue and notes from video

Master Hwa: Yesterday we talked about how to get out of the "grabbing". Now in that case you do talk about moves.  This is so important because people will grab you. There are quite a number of moves in the form where one can learn to get out of the grabbing. For example, this one where you punch, people grab you, you turn the arm to release the grab. The other hand slides up the arm like this to get their hand off you. Even this move right before diagonal brush knee, where you rotate the arm to get out of a grab could be useful.  

When you turn the arm in this manner as people grab you, you are turning on this axis.  Turning on that axis, you have an advantage in leverage.  This is because you are turning on this very short axis. So, even against a more powerful hand you can still turn. Then you get to the point where it opens and you can get out of the grab. Then you remember I talked about the rotation of the arm in other moves and you can get out of a grab there as well, this is so important. 

You know, you will encounter grabbing, and you need to counter it and you need to do it fast. You need to do it fast but properly before someone gets a solid grip on you. In order to get out of it you want to do something immediately.

Student:  "I thought I saw you press a point on his hand on your DVD"

Master Hwa:  Right, right, but that is kind of like this which comes from the move in the form when he grabs you. I press a little bit and then I am turning my arm to release it. Well, we practiced that with Pete who is a wrestler and he has a very strong grip. That is how we develop and put it to good use.  I find this with my nephew who is 22 years old, 6'4", a wrestler and very strong.  So he wants to get hold of my hand so he can get me on the ground.  So practicing with him, he just cannot get hold of my hand. So you know lots of people in martial arts also come from the weight lifting room.  They are very strong and they want to grab you. Actually, he is my grand-nephew.

Student:  "How does Tai Chi do against Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?"

Master Hwa: You know...this is all individual. It is individual because when we practice the form we can reach a certain stage where this is called "mastery". In other words, with such "mastery", you can do the form, where every move is internal.  You can do the movements and you don't have to think. So, at that stage, you have "mastery" of the form. 

But with martial arts applications there really is no such "mastery".  I mean to say that it is endless. Martial art applications are endless. So it is hard to compare when it is so together.

Except at a time when the first Tai Chi master went to Beijing. He went to Beijing and he liked to challenge people. It is said that he beat up everybody. He even makes insistence that other masters fight with him so he can prove it.  He just wanted to try it out on other martial arts. So in that sense, and at that time, he did win.

The other thing to consider at that time is that people did not know about Tai Chi. You see that is another thing, people may not have developed a way to counteract the Tai Chi.

Now if you know Tai Chi like in the fight between Wu Gong Yee and the other guy (White Crane's Chan Hak Fu).  Now, both sides know each other's art very well. So, I'm sure they developed  a strategy to counteract the opponent's strength. Now the other guy, if you watch the video, and you Jim, you watch it many times. 

Student: "Yes, that is right".

So the guy changed the way of his external martial art. He did not use momentum, he did not use body momentum at all. He knew if he used body momentum, the Tai Chi was very good at counteracting  body momentum. So you see when you watch the video, he is just chopping with his arms, there is no body momentum, isn't that right?

Student:  "Yes, that is right".

So there is just flurry of arms without any body momentm, keeping the body momentum to a minimum or none at all. Certainly in that way he cannot develop all the power and so forth. So at least he tried to avoid being put on the ground by Wu Gong Yee. 

So you hear many people nowdays they don't think Wu is using Tai Chi or that the fight was bad, or they don't know what they are doing. So you cannot blame him, for in that case, he cannot be using Tai Chi.  Once again you see the guy is not using body momentum so how should Wu use Tai Chi, OK? 

 People watch that tape, and they say, how come, and Wu should have used Tai Chi.

So there is no momentum on the part of the guy, just flurry of arms and so with every chop Wu has to block. So also notice Wu is using the edge of his hand to block.  He is hitting the guy on his inside forearms and after awhile the guys arms  get tired...his arms are being hit on inside forearm muscle right there. 

Note: Little known details after the fight as revealed in the "Pivot" article show some interesting things.  Chan Hak Fu had actual arm injury which he showed the artist Lo Pak.  He had multiple bruises.  Chan told him:  "Don't think that I can not beat an old man but this Mr. Wu is a different matter and not such a simple matter". "His light chops like a "baby's fist" caused all these bruises".

Wu Gong Yee on the other hand was to show his disciples his dentures and say: "I wore these dentures into the ring, had I been hit, the dentures would have fallen out".  Wu was asked what he used and he said "ban lan chui" (deflect, parry and punch) which has many variations, but everything depends on how the opponent is moving in determining how you should move".

It has been explained in "pivot" that in later interview Chan Hak Fu stated the newspapers of the time wrote such controversy that stirred the fires for the fight in the first place. 

As Master Hwa states and shows, the fight probably looks very dry to the lay person.  We are raised on a diet of the spectacular in movies and TV so that fight looked "unappetizing". As Master Hwa shows with his own chops, the two palms of Wu would go from out to in, from low to upward to intercept Chan Hak Fu's fists.

It is also interesting that people find the fight boring in light of today's movies and TV.  Students of the time reported being terrified at the sounds of the fight.  One could hear the cracking sound of the hits.  People passed out in the audience, blood was flowing so much from Chan Hak Fu's nose that it could not be stopped.  For those that doubt the efficacy of Tai Chi or the "boring" fight, it would seem that it still and perhaps even moreso bears out the adage "there are no winning moves, there are only winning executions of those moves".

Internal Discipline "Folding Movement"

Excerpted  and some editing from "Uncovering the Treasure, Classical Tai Chi's Path to Health & Energy" by Stephen Hwa:

Please go to this link:
Internal Discipline Folding Movement Video Link

The folding move involves only one side of the body; but in this case it is not the entire side (includes legs which is shown in the photo above) which would be known as "hand follows foot , elbow follows knee", so please do not confuse this with that movement

This is just the upper quadrant of the body moving/folding as a unit. It is a QUARTER-BODY move.  In the case shown in the video, the right side of the body is folding or unfolding by keeping the left side of the body stationary.  The stationary part provides support, some of the power for the move but the lower 2 quadrants (legs) provide grounding.  The Right side of the body is yang, the left side of the body is yin.  The Yin-Yang junction is at the spine. One can visualize that the spine is a hinge, so each side of the torso, down through the buttocks is like a door which folds or unfolds using that hinge.  If the leg was involved in the movement, it would be a HALF-BODY move.

Even though only a quarter of the body is moving it is still an important example of how to make a move but still keep a portion (in this case 3/4 of the body) still.  It is also of importance as an example of how to make a move but keep a significant portion of the body alignment intact.  Whether half body or quarter body, whether the leg moves with it or not it can only be achieved when the turning power comes from the waist and the entire back's muscles.

If this is done correctly , one will achieve a continuous energy flow in the body.  It is a "neigong" exercise. It is tailor made to be a "silk reeling exercise" which might be defined as a continuous symmetrical simple internal movement or movements.  Doing this, one will be able to learn gradually how to move with internal discipline and enjoy the sensation of internal energy circulation. This exercise emphasizes the stimulation of muscles, tendons and blood flow along the spine and the back.  Those who practice this regularly experience a sense of rejuvenation and improved well being.  If one has spare moments during the day, particularly if the exercise can be carried out in a casual and relaxed mood, there will be more chance for the subconscious to play a part.  The ultimate objective is to learn internal movements like this in more or less a piecemeal fashion then integrate them into the Form play.

Form and Martial Intent "Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg"

Master Stephen Hwa speaking of the Form and Martial Intent of "Golden Rooster..." movement/posture 76 and 77 (Round Form) of Classical Wu Style at a workshop 2011, Buffalo, NY. One should keep a desire to deliver the internal power externally through the hands, arm and feet here, whatever the movent is.  I contrast Master Hwa's instruction of the Round Form with his "description" of the Square Form below. The Round Form video link is below where I also annotate  the instruction:

Video Form and Martial Intent "Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg"

Description of movements (Square Form) 76. Left Golden Rooster on One Leg 左金雞獨立
Posture 76 - Left Golden Rooster on One Leg 
 As the weight is transferred to the left leg, the left hand rises
to face-position, fingers pointing forward
 Right side of body turns left, rotating on the right heel, right
arm straightens to mid-position
 Right heel rises and right palm rotates to face up
 While right leg moves forward and left, the left hand lowers to

77. Right Golden Rooster on One Leg 右金雞獨立
Posture 77 - Right Golden Rooster on One Leg
 Right foot moves to empty step position and right hand moves to
mid-position while left palm rotates up
 Right toes push to the ground
 As the weight is transferred to the right leg, the right forearm
draws the right wrist under the left elbow
 The upper body rotates left and becomes centered
 The left foot moves forward in a kicking motion, while the right
forearm positions the right hand at face-position, palm facing
front
 As the right forearm draws the right wrist under the left elbow,
the left hip lifts the left leg

Silk Reeling and "The Upper Body Turning Movement"

Master Stephen Hwa speaking of the quarter body movement, half body movement and upper body turning at a workshop 2011, Buffalo, NY.  The video is here:  "Upper Body Turning"

In speaking of Silk Reeling another movement is the “turning” movement.  You keep the pelvis fixed and you turn. The buttock is fully engaged actually.  The buttock function will keep the pelvis from not turning.  So when you are turning up there the buttock is holding the pelvis.

As usual, with this one, I find more people have problems when you teach this. The problem is getting the shoulder away from the turning movement. If the shoulder has even a little bit of initiation in the movement you lost it. Don’t use the shoulder.  Everything is in here (core, lower abdomen).  The shoulder is just a slave following the movement.

Anybody have any questions on this turning movement.

“Do you practice with a tuck”?

Yes, because the buttock is involved.  You feel the buttock is energized and holding the pelvis.

“Master Hwa, at the end of the turning movement, is there a sense of a denser contraction that is happening”?

Well, a lot of places you feel the contraction. When you turn in this direction, without moving the pelvis, your buttock is supporting you.

“When you change direction, does the new direction take over?”

I guess, initially it is relaxed back to the neutral position.  

You can do it either way.

You could relax to the neutral position or you could energize back to the neutral position.

You probably want to energize back to the neutral position.  Because when you have an application you may have to energize any segment of the turn.  So you want to energize back to the neutral position.

I think you want to energize so you are intentionally turning back, rather than just relaxing back.

Try to get the shoulder away from any of the movement.

I notice on this side, you get a little bit of drop of the shoulder.

Good, very good.  Do you find how much energy is involved in making this movement, compared to  turning at the pelvis…because it is moving at the abdominal area.  So this is another silk reeling exercise.  Boy the beginner just eat it up.

“Well it is something they can do”

They can feel, and they feel somewhere they never have sensation before.

"Re-creating" the One Inch Punch

https://youtu.be/P8GEGEqVECQ?si=tUybAnCX2wMG2is2

Link to Bruce Lee's "one-inch punch" video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZzleh-jxgk

Link to Classical Tai Chi one-inch punch

While visiting Master Stephen Hwa at his home in Florida, he knocked on the door of his second apartment and said, "Have you eaten yet?" He then came in, sat with me, and talked about Fajin. He told me about the one-inch punch: "...all materials have a "time constant" in their elasticity ."

A time constant is the time that represents the speed with which a particular system can respond to change. It is typically equal to the time a specified parameter takes to vary by a specific factor. In the DVD "Tao of Martial Applications," he hit Tom Kostusiak with a one-inch punch. It hit with so much force and so much speed that it created a "time delay " (irrespective of the "time constant").

The Barrie Ryuesi Karate Club, Barrie, Ontario, Canada, posted a discussion and video of Master Hwa's demonstration on their fajin web page. I discussed this with them here, and their comments are in the quotations. I am JR. Thank you, Barrie Ryuesi Karate.

Barrie discussion

"Here is quite a good and believable demonstration of fajin, or the explosive delivery of internal energy, by Stephen Hwa, who teaches taijiquan at the University of Buffalo and in Fairport, New York."

JR: Master Hwa does not still teach at the University of Buffalo or Fairport but is at info@classicaltaichi.com. Presently, he teaches in Pompano Beach, Florida, where (while in the springtime of his life) he enjoys Florida's perpetual springtime.

Barrie: "He shows the "one-inch punch" made famous by Bruce Lee (see video link), who at the 1964 Longbeach championships knocks someone into a chair without any windup. His fist started an inch away from the target.

JR: I think it is a matter of opinion whether Bruce Lee does the punch "without any windup ."You will need to watch the video link: Notice his fist starts close to the man's chest (near solar plexus?), and you see him touch the man's chest a couple of times before delivering power. Looking carefully, you can see the man sway gently as Bruce's fist makes contact several times. As he touches the man's chest, Bruce adjusts his foot stance with his back foot pointing almost 90 degrees out. Bruce also pushes off from his back foot and this is Momentum Force. His back foot leaves the ground and this guy s reminiscent of how the feet move under momentum force when one is walking.

Barrie: "Master Hwa shows how it is possible to generate this power using the taiji "hollow-fist punch." He explains that other people have recreated this but use external" or purely muscular power. In his demonstration, he has his "hollow fist with pointed knuckles" pressing against the pad held to another person's midsection. His student, Sifu James Roach, holds his bicep and forearm to feel his muscular contraction.

JR: With the "hollow-fist punch," the reasoning is the same as why he maintained a relaxed arm. Bruce's fist, however, is clenched tightly, and the arm extends almost entirely. With such a clenched fist, the arm cannot maintain relaxation. Try this yourself, clench the fist tightly, and notice its effect on your arm and body. The use of muscular power is evident in Bruce's punch. Such preliminary muscle tension is called "external" power. It is what Master Hwa called a precursor to "ordinary force ."When the punch is delivered, one can see him pushing from the back foot. The force generated from external limbs such as arms and legs is much longer and cannot be compacted into such a burst as possible with a "hollow fist" and relaxed arm.

Barrie." He knocks back the man holding the pad with seemingly little effort, who feels a sudden power surge. The man holding Hwa's arm says it is relaxed before and after the punch, with only brief tension as the power delivers to the opponent. Hwa explains that a tense arm will significantly reduce the force if the arm tenses before the power is delivered."

JR: The Barrie comment "knocks back the man" is more detailed than the appearance would have us believe. The details are because of Tom's body structure and Master Hwa's. Ideally, one has to have a better body structure than the receiver. Bruce Lee has a body structure is incomparably better than the receiver, who stands flat-footed with feet together. Master Hwa's body structure is poor, but Tom's is better. The "reaction force" (Newton's Law of Action and Reaction) would have pushed Master Hwa back instead of Tom IF he had used "ordinary force ." He uses Nejin, which goes out like a whip with no tension that would be affected by the "reaction force ."After all, Newton cannot be wrong.

To explain this better, we refer to the term "Peng, " one of the 13 movements of Tai Chi. Peng has a significant component, an uplifting force for the most part. It lifted Tom partially off the ground, and then a minor forward force (the knockback portion) knocked him back. In this case, M. Hwa's tight, compact, and upright stance is advantageous as an utterly relaxed arm and body absorb the reaction force.

Because of the pad, Tom did not receive all the "explosive" energy possible. As Master Hwa demonstrated on an amateur boxer (familiar with body punches), even a force of reduced power with no pad collapses the receiver (Uncovering the Treasure, pp.109).

The "tensing" of the arm starts at the split second the hollow fist reaches the opponent, and resistance closes it. Also, Bruce uses the whole fist, whereas Master Hwa forms the knuckles into an open fist. The analogy is like that of "holding a robin's egg." One can imagine that clenching the fist before impact or even during would crack the egg, would it not? The hollow fist has pointed knuckles that are not tightly held, and it is designed to strike at soft tissue and not a bony part where it would hurt the fist.

The stiffening is a natural response to the feedback of a sensation of resistance. A side note to this is whether the opponent or target is like, or one might say, analogous to, a "creampuff" or a "side of beef ."In the latter, the resistance will be instantaneous, thus providing immediate feedback to such a pronounced sensation of resistance. If "creampuff" has no resistance, there will be little or no power delivery.

I had that discussion with Master Hwa, a Ph.D. chemical engineer (which got me interested) about terms like "time constant." My layman understands that all materials have a "time constant" in their elasticity. Well, in this case, the force is coming at Tom (as Master Hwa later says) with so much power and so much speed it creates a "time delay" (irrespective of the "time constant"?) in Tom's body going backward. Measuring how far the punch penetrates during and after the pad is only about 2 or 3 inches of compact movement.

Regardless, it still penetrates Tom's body, and one might say completely. I call it an "implosion" on the inside of Tom's body instead of an "explosion" on the outside. It is a "spike" of power because, like a spike, the opponent's body cannot escape the full force. He receives the whole force before his body moves back; so much for "pulling the punch."

One must learn from the Tai Chi form; one cannot get "internal discipline" and cultivate "internal energy," Fajin, by external movement. In all fairness to Bruce Lee, he might have pushed the opponent not to hurt him, thus diminishing his force. After all, he did not use a pad, and the potential for injury was great because his fist looked like it was spot on the solar plexus. Either way, you can come to your own conclusions. I humbly hope I have provided some additional observations based on my experience as a practitioner/teacher of the art and as the individual lightly touching Master Hwa's arm.

Discovery in Classical Tai Chi

I know that Master Hwa has consistently examined his own movements and tries unceasingly to come up with better ways of teaching.  Additionally, he maintains the desire to share his own discoveries with his students.  There are of course some students who develop what they learn from the teachings naturally by just practicing. I believe he is right in thinking that his desire to shorten the learning curve might be viewed with a disapproving eye by old masters.  After all, they believed in diligent practice and self-discovery. Master Hwa is well aware of this concern and relates it to Mencius story about a farmer who was impatient watching his seedlings grow so slowly that he went to the field and pulled the seedlings up to help their growth.

My understanding of the story is that the pulling up to see the results resulted in the plants dying. Intuitively I think that Mencius wanted to illustrate that successful cultivation of personal virtue was a long term process.  It is a satirical thought indeed that anyone can be impatient for success yet act to destroy the very conditions upon which success depends, or hastens growth yet hopes for success. 

Here is one discovery that I have made:  The desire for success is a self imposed obstacle to success. As a Westerner, I think I have self imposed things standing in my way that make living Tai Chi very difficult.  I know that I am not immune to the many feelings wherein one needs success and needs it in a hurry - in things other than Tai Chi as well.  So the question of what Tai Chi can mean to me particularly in light of these self imposed roadblocks is ever more important. 

 Although Master Hwa feels the need to shorten the learning curve, I don't think he should ever regret it.  I hope I am not being too bold when I say that Tai Chi has had a difficult time in the West. For one thing the ground that he planted Tai Chi "seedlings" in is as I say,  in the West.  One might also say that it is needed very much in the West, but the ground is not the most fertile considering the obstacles, albeit self-imposed . If anything I think his efforts to shorten the curve were necessitated by forces that may well be difficult to control as I state above.  

I have encountered no other Tai Chi learning  as he teaches where students are taught to zero in on the correct sensation of a movement.  I have found that this is truly the best tool for achieving self-improvement.  One learns to sense the gradual discoveries of their own body which have been "under ground" for perhaps their entire life - how can this be called "pulling up"?  The health implications of this are incredible for the sensing of gradual discoveries is a direct pointer to how well the nervous system becomes both healthy and well "tuned".  One doesn't have to look for results, one can feel them.

In the domain of sensing movement and feeling the results I have included a link to a Youtube video wherein Master Hwa talks of one of these many discoveries.  I have included the link here: Discovery in Classical Tai Chi and the transposition of his workshop here:

Master Hwa: "You know sometimes, as I recently wrote in the book about discoveries. And it is still continuously discovered. For example, we talk about rotating this arm, your arm is up a little bit?  OK. Before I kind of said, now, because you rotate up, elbow is down.  So now you can go down like this. But really that rotation, HAS LOTS MORE MEANING TO IT.  

So you understand because you are nodding your head right?  You know, you try with one hand, you can see. So, one hand you rotate, ok, you rotate then you start moving again.  MORE.  You see this move, starting with this rotation.  This is a very powerful move. Right? Starting with this rotation. Once you start to move this...  So again, I just, just ...Ohhh, these old masters, they really think about everything. This is a very powerful move...for blocking, and later on, you can feel the power.  Right...very good, right, exactly. Right and also later on, when we talk about push hands, there is other uses for this move too.

You, know, so early on, I just followed my teacher, turning but. Now I really understand, why, so important but.  Two hands is actually  more difficult, so your both hands come down. You know most of the Tai Chi forms when they do this, they pull the arms back like this. It is NOT, we really do THIS.  It is more difficult than one hand...both sides actually. 

Student: "At that point, it is a feeling in the back?"

Master Hwa:  "Yeah, the back, my back goes down. That's how the back goes down. It's easy to illustrate it using one hand but two hands is a more difficult situation. Yes the SHOULDER SINKS. "

"Now two hands can also be used for blocking, Or, when someone comes underneath you, you strike him on the back with the elbows. The shoulder goes down."

"....Classical Wu Style Tai Chi with other martial arts..."

Master Hwa's Florida "Roots"
"Mastering others is strength": There is no end to the use of strength and there will always be others who are stronger, others who can learn to counter your strength, others to compare yourself to, in light of what is said in the Blog, why engage in such comparisons, there is only one of you however, "Mastering yourself is true power". 

"How can such a soft, slow moving Tai Chi Form be preparation for martial arts?". I guess some people missed this chapter in Master Hwa's book, for he says this and then explains.  At about 4:30 of the video we hear even a long time student repeat the same refrain:  "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu?". You can hear the  refrain echoed in a thousand Youtube Videos and in those same videos you will sometimes hear the fighting  capability of the individual asking the question. Speaking only for myself, I have never been bothered by this question AND for myself there are far more important questions I ask of Master Hwa.  I flew to Florida over the weekend of May 11 (the Jet Blue tickets were my birthday present from my wife Barbara) and spent a great, long weekend visiting with my teacher Master Stephen Hwa and Eva.

After I wrote thank you emails, I sent a hand written card of thanks to Master Hwa and Eva for their wonderful generosity and hospitality.  While I was there, he would come to the apartment at least 2 times a day and spend hours at a time with me on my form, one might say I lived with him.  We also ate all our meals together, we took walks together, the training went on nonstop. I asked question after question about my form and he never wavered in giving answers about my form.   I had hour after hour to both question and do my form for him.  Not once in all of that time did I think of saying: "How does Tai Chi fare against (insert your  martial art)?" 

Perhaps it is because I finally realize in my heart, there is no end to it and more importantly, I cannot put an end to it...for it truly is endless.  How do people miss hearing him say: "There are no winning strategies, applications, etc. (insert your martial art), there are only winning executions of those strategies, applications, etc."? Listen to  4:30 of the video in response to: "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu"?   Here is the link to the Youtube video from a workshop in 2011: "...Classical Wu Style Tai Chi with other martial arts..."


Master Hwa: "You know this is all individual. You know, we practice the form and we can reach a certain stage and this is called Mastery. You know you can learn and do the form so that every move is internal, that you don't have to think (about what comes next) . You know at that stage, you are mastering the form, BUT with martial art application, there will be no mastery.  With martial art applications there is endless improvement.  So it's harder to compare one to the other.  "

"You know when the first Tai Chi master  went to Beijing most Tai Chi was in the countryside, and people don't know that much. So he went to Beijing, liked to challenge people and beat up everybody. So he went to one master there and wanted to challenge him, "Oh, I know you are better than me now" the master said.  The challenger said "Please let's just do some". He just wanted to try it out on other martial artists.  Sincerely, not to just build the name, so he begged the guy. "Let's do something"

"So in that sense, at that time, he beat up everybody, there is no other martial art that can beat him, Certainly at that time, consider your knowledge, that is another thing, people do not know about Tai Chi. So people may not have developed a way to counteract it."

"Now if you know Tai Chi like in the fight between Wu Gong Yi and the other guy. Now both sides know each others art very well.  Now, I'm sure they both develop a strategy to counteract the other guy's strength. Now the other guy, if you watch the video (click here for LINK). Now I know (pointing to Jim) you watch it many times, you find (the other guy an "external" White Crane martial art) he changed the way, in other words, he doesn't use momentum, body momentum at all. He knows the Tai Chi is really good to counteract momentum, body momentum. Body momentum, that is what Tai Chi is really good at.  And he just chopped away, just using his arms, so there is no body momentum...remember that? There was just a flurry of arms without any body momentum. Certainly in that way, he cannot develop all the power and so forth. At least he tried to avoid being thrown by the Tai Chi. In that case Wu Gong Yi is not using Tai Chi, you cannot blame him, because the guy is not using body momentum. 

So at that time (and even today on Youtube) people are saying how come Wu is not using Tai Chi?  So he is not using Tai Chi and so everytime, he has to block.  So he is using this (side of the hand)  and hitting him (on the arms) and after awhile.  So after awhile, the guys arms got tired because the muscle got hit.  So he, himself, goes in and hit his nose (he walked into Wu's blocks and his nose started bleeding profusely).  You cannot blame him for not using Tai Chi because the other guy does not use body momentum (he moves, I move, if he does not move, I do not move).  So the guy did this with his arms and Wu did this to block him, block his chops. One of his hands he cannot raise or something."