What's your strategy to counter other martial arts?

 Classical Tai Chi comparison to other martial arts Video

 

I concern myself with "cutting" or "lengthening" my own line rather than comparing it  with "others"!

With Master Hwa!  This was very powerful and one I like to do for myself!

Before I met Master Hwa, I was a disciple of the Wu Family and yes, they are really good with Tai Chi as a martial art.
 

 

"What is your strategy to counter other martial arts?"

 

Is Tai Chi a martial art or not?

 

While tai chi is acknowledged as a martial art by those who have done their homework, its perception on the internet as a form of self-defense is often overshadowed by its reputation as a health and wellness practice. That may well be a question with no answer because martial applications are endless in number. So,these are non-rhetorical questions that you need to ask and answer for yourself.  

 

First of all, how good is your Tai Chi, how much do you practice, do you have practice partners or are you confined to Form practice, etc.?

 

What specific qualities or techniques in Tai Chi contribute to its effectiveness in martial applications? 

 

How do individual skill level and training differences impact the comparison between Tai Chi and other martial arts? 

 

In what ways could Tai Chi practitioners develop strategies to counteract other martial arts styles effectively?

 

"How can such a soft, slow-moving Tai Chi Form be preparation for martial arts?". 

 

I guess some people missed this chapter in Master Hwa's book, for he says this and then explains.  At about 4:30 of the video, we hear even a long-time student repeat the same, refrain:  "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu?". You can listen to the refrain echoed in what seems like a thousand YouTube videos; in those same videos, you will sometimes hear the fighting capability of the individual asking the question. 

 

 

Speaking only for myself, I have never been bothered by this question; there are far more essential questions I ask of Master Hwa.  I flew to Florida over the weekend of May 11, 2013 (the Jet Blue tickets were my birthday present from my wife Barbara) and spent a great, long weekend visiting with my teacher, Master Stephen Hwa, and Eva.

 

After I wrote thank you emails, I sent a handwritten card of thanks to Master Hwa and Eva for their generosity and hospitality.  While I was there, he would come to the apartment at least 2 times a day and spend hours with me on my form; one might say I lived with him.  We ate all our meals and walked together; the training went nonstop. I asked questions about my form, and he never wavered in giving answers.   I had hour after hour to question and do my form for him.  I never thought of saying: "How does Tai Chi fare against (insert your  martial art)?" 

 

It may be because I finally realize that in my heart, there is no end to it, and more importantly, I cannot put an end to it, for it truly is endless.  How do people miss hearing him say: "There are no winning strategies, applications, etc. (insert your martial art), there are only winning executions of those strategies, applications, etc."? Listen to  4:30 of the above video in response to: "How does Tai Chi fare against Brazilian JiuJitsu"?   

Master Hwa: "You know this is all individual. We practice the form and can reach a particular stage called Mastery. You know you can learn and do the form so that every move is internal, that you don't have to think (about what comes next). You know, at that stage, you are mastering the form, BUT with martial arts application, there will be no mastery.  With martial arts applications, there is endless improvement.  So it's harder to compare one to the other.  "

 

 

"When the first Tai Chi master went to Beijing, most Tai Chi was in the countryside, and people didn't know that much. So he went to Beijing, where he liked challenging people and beating up everybody. So he went to one master there and wanted to challenge him, "Oh, I know you are better than me now," the master said.  The challenger said, "Please, let's just do some". He just wanted to try it out on other martial artists.  Sincerely, he begged the guy not just to build the name. "Let's do something"

"So in that sense, at that time, he beat up everybody; there is no other martial art that can beat him; certainly, at that time, consider your knowledge; that is another thing people do not know about Tai Chi. So people may not have developed a way to counteract it."

 

 

"Now, if you know Tai Chi, like in the fight between Wu Gong Yi and the other guy. Now, both sides know each other's art very well.  Now, I'm sure they both develop a strategy to counteract the other guy's strength. Now, the other guy, if you watch the fight video (click here for LINK). Now I know (pointing to me) you watch it many times, you find (the other guy, an "external" White Crane martial art) he changed the way; in other words, he doesn't use momentum, body momentum at all. He knows Tai Chi is good for counteracting momentum and body momentum. Body momentum is what Tai Chi is good at defending against.  And he just chopped away, using his arms, so there is no body momentum. There was just a flurry of arms without body momentum. Indeed, in that way, he cannot develop all the power. At least he tried to avoid being thrown by the Tai Chi. If Wu Gong Yi is not using Tai Chi, you cannot blame him because he is not using body momentum. 

 

 

So, at that time (and even on YouTube), people said Wu was not using Tai Chi.  He does not use Tai Chi, so he has to block it every time.  So he uses this (on the side of the hand)  and hits him (on the arms) after a while.  So, after a while, the guy's arms got tired because the muscle got hit.  So he went in and hit his nose (he walked into Wu's blocks, and his nose started bleeding profusely).  You cannot blame him for not using Tai Chi because the other guy does not use body momentum (he moves, I move; if he does not move, I do not move).  So the guy did this with his arms, and Wu did this to block him and block his chops. One of his hands he cannot raise or something."

Learn the “Internal Dynamics”

Master Stephen Hwa teaching “Fold the body like a book”. Inhibit one side of the body from moving while moving the other side.  Master Hwa and Sifu Jim Roach in Rochester, NY. 

Take away (inhibit) movement to gain movement (internal discipline) A video in which the “Folding” aka Half Body Movement is taught at 5:00!

Ms. E. Marie Koepsell, quoted from her publication “Learning the Internal Dynamics of Tai Chi,” states: “As a reference point for correct movement, Master Hwa uses the example of the movement of children, who use much more of their torso for initiating action. He says when children use their arms or legs, the motion originates from the torso, the most substantial part of the body.”

Core strength in children improves stability and balance, which are crucial for everyday activities and sports performance. A study published in the NIH database investigated the effects of core strength training on core stability in students, finding that after a 4-week training program, parameters of core stability improved, particularly in quiet sitting positions and sudden perturbation tasks.

Another study published in the NIH database explored the effect of core stability exercises on hand functions in children with hemiplegic cerebral palsy. The research demonstrated significant improvements in hand functions after incorporating core stability exercises into the treatment program.

Regarding “improvements in hand function…”Master Hwa has also said the arms and legs should be treated as appendages that must be taught to move in coordination with and under the direction of the torso. "As we start aging,” according to Master Hwa, "less and less of our movements come from the waist and back. We hold our middle stiffly, and more of our movements originate from the shoulders and the hip joints. This puts pressure on joints, and we lose strength and mobility. “ 

Repeating what Master Stephen Hwa said: 

“…when children use their arms or legs, the motion originates from the torso, the most substantial part of the body…”! Physiology also says children’s movement development starts from the core of their body and progresses outward. This process is known as the “cephalocaudal pattern,” meaning that babies first develop control of their head and neck muscles and then gradually gain more control over their arms, legs, and other body parts as they grow.

The core muscles, including the abdominal and back muscles, are crucial for gross and fine motor skills. They provide stability and support for the spine, enabling children to maintain balance and posture. Strong core muscles are essential for walking, running, jumping, and sitting upright. Without a stable core, children may struggle with tasks that require fine motor skills, such as writing or cutting, because their energy is focused on maintaining balance.

One might then say learning Classical Tai Chi is like “…a return to childhood…”. 

Such a “…return…” is more like sculpture, taking things away from movement to accomplish movement rather than adding more movement. This results in initiating movements from the body's internal core, such as the abdomen and back, rather than from the limbs. For example, when taking a step, the movement is driven internally from the abdomen and back, transmitted through the pelvis to the legs, rather than the foot moving independently.

This internal movement is characterized by the idea that a moving part of the body (yang) works against a stationary part (yin) that provides support and power for the move. This interaction between yin and yang is essential for achieving balance and vitality in Tai Chi practice. In classical Tai Chi, this process involves inhibiting certain movements to accomplish certain other movements. Inhibiting specific movements is a key aspect of the practice, particularly the concept of “internal discipline.” 

Folding

The folding move involves one entire side of the body, arm, torso, and leg, moving as a unit. In the example shown in Video at 5:00, the right side of the body folds or unfolds by keeping the left side of the body stationary. The stationary part provides support, some power for the move, and grounding. The left side of the body is yin, and the right is yang. The yin-yang junction is at the spine. One can visualize the spine as a hinge, so each side of the body, like a door, can fold or unfold using that hinge. This is also a half-body move, right side vs. left.  From 5;00 to end of the YouTube video

See Uncovering the Treasure by Stephen Hwa Ph.D at Amazon

P. 5. 

Uncovering the Treasure

Uncovering The Treasure: Classical Tai Chi's Path to Internal Energy & Health

This move in Tai Chi classics is described as

"upper and lower body following each other”

上下相隨

Another classical description is, " hand follows the foot, elbow follows the knee, and shoulder follow the hip". This is an important example of how to make a move but still keep each side of the body' alignment intact. 

This move can be achieved only when the turning power comes from the waist and the entire back's muscles. If one uses the upper body power for this move, the lower body will not likely be able to follow upper body's move The left foot will likely be lagging behind the move to form a twisted structure on the left side of the body, greatly reducing the power of the move.

From 5;00 to end of the YouTube video, you can also observe the “Folding”effect on what is a “half body movement”. In fact he uses the term “Folding”. You hold one side still while moving the other side. You “inhibit” movement in order to do movement!

Classical Tai Chi Internal Disciplined Abdomen/Core Contraction

 Classical Tai Chi Internal Disciplined Abdomen/Core Contraction

How to contract abdomen/core to develop internal discipline Master Hwa Video

NIH referenceNIH REFERENCE ARTICLE

Contraction releases “Myokines” 

Classical Tai Chi Grandmaster Wabu Young, disciple of Wu Chien Chuan was quoted by Master Stephen Hwa as saying “…Tai Chi is not exercise…”!  To paraphrase Grandmaster Wu who also said “…every movement in tai chi has the complementary parts of Yin and Yang, …Yang is movement, Yin is stillness and that makes a “Yin/Yang Junction”; …when it is IN the body core it is an internal move, when outside the core it is an external move…”!

 

Thus: We will say that contracting the abdomen/body core with your study of Classical Tai Chi using its intense “Internal Discipline”can lead to the release of “myokines”! Myokines are proteins produced and secreted by muscle cells in response to muscle contraction. Myokines play a role in muscle physiology and can exert systemic effects on other tissues and organs.

When the abdominal/core muscles contract, they can release myokines, contributing to muscle hypertrophy, glucose and lipid metabolism, and other physiological processes. For example, the contraction of the abdominal muscle, aka the core muscles, can be practiced to engage the core correctly, as described in the Classical Tai Chi  context provided in great detail by Master Stephen Hwa. This engagement releases myokines, contributing to overall muscle health and function.

Ref. NIH: “Some specific myokines that have been identified include pigment epithelium-derived factor (PEDF) and dipeptidyl peptidase 4 (DPP4). PEDF is a contraction-regulated myokine, although its serum levels can decrease after intense exercise. Additionally, 52 novel myokines have been identified that are not previously described as being secreted by skeletal muscle cells, indicating a complex and extensive network of muscle-derived factors.

In summary, contracting the abdomen can release myokines, which have various beneficial effects on muscle and other organs, contributing to overall health and well-being.

Myokines are peptides produced and released by skeletal muscle cells in response to muscular contractions, and they play a role in regulating metabolic functions.”

Classical Tai Chi, as beneficial to martial prowess and health that involves slow, circular body core movements (internal discipline), can be considered a form of abdominal/core contraction that stimulates the Myokine release. 

• Myokines: These are cytokines or small proteins produced by skeletal muscle cells during abdominal/ core voluntary induced contraction. They have autocrine, paracrine, and endocrine effects, meaning they can act on the muscle itself, nearby cells, or throughout the body. Myokines are involved in associated metabolic changes, tissue regeneration, and repair, among other functions.
• 
  
• Classical Tai Chi and Abdominal/Core Contraction: Classical Tai Chi involves movements that can engage various muscle groups, intensely including the abdomen. While Classical Tai Chi is not considered intense “exercise”it still involves muscular contractions that can potentially stimulate myokine production. The practice of Classical Tai Chi can improve muscle strength, flexibility, and balance, which may contribute to overall metabolic health.
• 
  
• Potential Benefits: While specific studies on the direct effects of Classical Tai Chi on myokine production are limited, the “Internal Disciplines” intense ability to engage muscles and promote overall health suggests it could contribute to the beneficial effects associated with myokines.

TELLTALE SIGNS

 TAO OF MARTIAL APPLICATIONS

Video Link

Tai Chi 13 Methods, aka 13 Postures, aka 8 Energies and 5 Steps aka 8 Gates etc.

CANNOT “STRUM” UNLESS USING FINGERS ALSO FOR A PARTICULAR KIND OF FAJIN IT REQUIRES PALM, BUT THERE ARE OTHER KINDS, FIST, ETC.

NOTICE MASTER HWA’S PALM NOT SIDE OF HIS HAND ON MY SHOULDER

NOTE: THERE ARE TELLTALE SIGNS IN THE PRACTICE METHODS OF MANY STUDENTS ; FORM,  PUSH HANDS THAT APPEAR TO REFUTE THESE METHODS!  I’LL ADDRESS ONLY ONE WHICH I FEEL IS QUITE IMPORTANT AND THAT IS HOW THE HANDS ARE USED! BELIEVE IT OR NOT YOUR “FORM” PRACTICE GREATLY IMPROVES THE “TACTILE ACUITY” OF YOUR HANDS. YOU CANNOT SENSE “TING JIN” IF YOU ARE TOUCHING AN OPPONENT CARELESSLY.  YOU KNOW YOU CAN PUSH A DOOR ETC. WITH THE SIDE OF YOUR ARM BUT AN OPPONENT COULD NEUTRALIZE THAT AND COME BACK ANGLED. THE PALM AND FINGERS HOWEVER CAN SENSE MUCH BETTER. HENCE THE SAYING OF A TEACHER IN PUSH HANDS “YOUR HANDS ARE NOT MEAT HOOKS SO DONT USE THEM THAT WAY”. I’LL CONTRIBUTE MORE SOON, THIS IS JUST AN APPETIZER. SEE BELOW:

Classical Tai Chi is based on many of the principles outlined in the Tai Chi Classics, which provide a framework for exploring both the energy cultivation aspects of Tai Chi and its martial arts applications. The 13 methods, or postures, are a core component of Tai Chi practice and consist of 8 energies and 5 steps.

The 8 energies, also known as the Eight Gates or Bā Mén (八門), are:

Peng Jin (Ward Off): This energy is associated with the Tai Chi’s essential power of flexibility and resilience, often seen as the first move in many Tai Chi forms.

Lu Jin (Roll Back): This energy is the reverse of Peng, involving pulling or rolling back against an opponent’s force.

Ji Jin (Press): This energy combines two forces as one, representing dexterity and adhering to an opponent.

An Jin (Push): This energy involves listening and pushing, often used in sinking and creating pull force.

Cai Jin (Pull Down): This energy is associated with the inward drawing of silk, often used in yielding and controlling an opponent’s strength.

Lie Jin (Split): This energy is used for expanding the body to compress back in for a strike.

Zhou Jin (Elbow): This energy involves turning and elbow striking.

Kao Jin (Body): This energy involves turning and body striking.

The 5 steps, or Wǔ Bù (五步), refer to the footwork of Tai Chi and are responsible for moving the body smoothly and with stability, balance, and “base.” They are:

Step Forward (Chin Pu): This step involves placing the front foot down on its heel and moving forward while maintaining balance.

Step Backward (Tui Pu): This step involves stepping backward with the toe first and carefully transferring weight to the backward-moving foot.

Turn Left: This step involves turning the body to the left while maintaining balance and stability.

Turn Right: This step involves turning the body to the right while maintaining balance and stability.

Central Equilibrium: This step involves maintaining balance and stability in the center, often seen as a neutral stance.

These 13 postures form the basis for all techniques in Tai Chi and are essential for practitioners to understand and master in order to achieve the health benefits, martial applications, and graceful movements associated with Tai Chi practice.

Appearance of Reality is sometimes an illusion

 AFTER FINISHING THE LESSONS, A BEGINNING 

 by Jim Roach

Review Upper Body as a "Beginning" Video Link

Jim Roach said:  I include the video link and the Forum information as an example of "...reality illusions..."!  With Tom Kostusiak, I arranged the 2011 workshop, where you can see this video and many others that were shot. Watching another video of students doing "push hands" is a perfect example of "reality illusions." People's lower bodies and hips were all over the place, and there was no apparent intent to stabilize hips and turn the upper body. Master Hwa's suggestions are "spot on"!

by Master Stephen Hwa, excerpted from Classical Tai Chi Forum 10

"Several of you have indicated that you were either finished or nearly finished with the lessons. You have made a very good beginning. Now, you can start to take the long and rewarding part of the journey in which you will gradually improve every aspect of your form playing and enjoy the fruits of tai chi. Remember that “sometimes the appearance of reality is actually an illusion.” My students in class often told me that they thought I was moving a certain way and tried to do the same. Later, they found out that their observation was not correct. That was why I incorporated different views in my video, so you could see my moves from different angles and lessen the chance of a wrong impression. 

 

Using a fresh eye to review the lesson video could also uncover any misinterpretation of my movements. The other thing to remember is that “you perceive that you are moving a certain way, but in fact, you are not moving that way.” I met one student who had finished the lessons from the video. One problem I observed was that when he tried to internalize his movement away from the arm and shoulder, his movements initiated from the chest area. He would scrunch his chest to start an upper body movement. When one of the students in my class makes the turning movement, she does stabilize the pelvic area, but the turning movement is initiated from the upper abdomen area. 

 

In both cases, the concentration on the internal position is too high. It has to be in the navel and below. When done right, you will feel the tight connection to the lower body through the buttocks. My 12-year-old student in the class commented succinctly: “One thinks that he is not doing external, so it must be internal.” It is not an either-or situation. There is an intermediate region, which is neither external nor very internal. Learning Tai Chi often follows an unexpected path: advancement followed by periods of stagnation and even a turn for the worse. This is because, at this stage, you still have not built a firm foundation under your form practice. 

 

Once familiar with the movements, you may become careless, neglecting some of the fundamentals in the form playing. You can test this by critically looking at how you do the tai chi walk. My experience with my students in class is that such reviews often showed missing details, which they had done correctly years past. Learning the square form will help build a firm framework of the form."

Insight or Fight

 

https://youtu.be/mZSbG5jkn6w Video

Tai Chi with Momentum vs. Classical Tai Chi with Internal Discipline

" Master Hwa, I have become impatient with the slowness of the learning curve regarding Classical Tai Chi for this reason alone: the forms playing do not seem to be leading to martial application, and there do not seem to be any partners out this way who know Classical Tai that I can practice.

I am enrolling in a Wing Chun class through a park district near my home. However, the Sifu was able to tag me in the face.”

There is more potential reasoning why people might quit Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline for Tai Chi that uses momentum to fight. It is not entirely due to “impatience and/or partners.” 

Students feel a lack of immediate gratification: Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline focuses on developing internal energy and subtle movements, which may not provide the same sense of immediate physical accomplishment or excitement as Tai Chi or other martial arts that use momentum to fight. Practitioners seeking a more dynamic and physically demanding practice might find Classical Tai Chi too slow-paced or subtle.

Incompatibility with martial arts goals: Tai Chi, or martial arts that use momentum to fight, is often geared towards developing combat skills and physical power. Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline, on the other hand, emphasizes internal energy development, relaxation, and subtle movement. Practitioners seeking a more martially oriented practice might find Classical Tai Chi too focused on internal growth and not enough on external physical technique.

Difficulty transitioning from external to internal movement: Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline requires a deep understanding of internal movement and energy transmission. Practitioners accustomed to using momentum and external force might struggle to transition to internal movement, finding it difficult to relax and generate power from their core.

Perception of lack of “fighting” effectiveness: Tai Chi, or a martial art that uses momentum to fight, is often designed to be more physically confrontational and aggressive. Practitioners prioritizing effectiveness in a physical confrontation might perceive classical Tai Chi with internal discipline as too gentle or ineffective in a real-world fighting scenario.

Inadequate instruction or guidance: Practitioners who switch from classical Tai Chi with internal discipline to Tai Chi or an external martial art that uses momentum to fight might do so because they also feel they lack proper instruction or guidance in internal movement and energy transmission. With “ the shoe on the other foot,” students also look for quick results. They might struggle to integrate internal movement into their practice without understanding internal discipline.

Misconceptions about classical Tai Chi: Some practitioners might quit Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline due to misconceptions about its effectiveness or relevance. They might believe that Classical Tai Chi is only for relaxation or health benefits rather than recognizing its potential as a martial art that develops internal power and energy.

Personal goals and preferences: Ultimately, individuals may switch from Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline to Tai Chi, or a martial art which uses momentum to fight due to personal preferences or goals. Some might prefer a more physically demanding or aggressive practice, while others might appreciate the subtlety and internal focus of Classical Tai Chi.

It’s essential to note that each individual’s experience and motivations are unique, and there may be other reasons why people quit Classical Tai Chi with internal discipline for Tai Chi or a martial art that uses momentum to fight.

Not because it’s easy, but because you thought it is easy!

But, you thought it was easy! Video Link

The young man asked, “Where are the people for this class”? I said, “They don’t want to do the work”! I love that non-escalating comment from my teacher, Master Stephen Hwa! 

“Why does Tai Chi have to be so hard”? The young woman said that in a class at Buffalo State University. My tongue-in-cheek thought was, “Would it be more straightforward if new students could leave their brains at the door to the Tai Chi studio”?  One thinks the intellect gets in the way and hinders learning Tai Chi. 

Students seek a way to attach their intellect and logical brain to each new movement rather than learning through the body. As a teacher, I think the brain gets confused as it cannot find a way to attach an experience or association of the movements to memory, so their minds fight them all the way to try and intellectualize what is being learned.  

Perhaps it might sound aloud like this: "I must find something to relate this to..... there is no way I am going into that body down there; I am the brains here..... oh, I haven't a clue; it's too difficult, so I'll give up".  

As beginners, students are usually stuck in their heads, and it's hard to change how we do things unless it fits the same groove we are used to.  In a sense there is a logic and rationale to not shut off but “turn down the volume” on beginner's critical thinking which is the left brain.

Whether they realize it, beginners pay the most attention to their hand movements, and as a teacher, I see it is evident. Watching their movement, I also see their heads turn so the hands can be seen. This is a DISCONNECT from their body. Faithful Classical Tai Chi must come from the core. Their eyes follow their hand postures, and they become disconnected from the body. Accurate Classical Tai Chi movements must instead come from the core, which drives the moves of the limbs. 

Classical Tai Chi is a complex movement practice. There is no route to quick learning and no shortcuts to take.  It's impossible to learn through intellectualizing the moves; you need to move the body repeatedly. There is no perfection to aim for; ask Master Stephen Hwa, who has been practicing for 50 years and says “…I am still learning…”.   

 

The young man asked:

 “Where are the people for this class”? 

I said: “They don’t want to do the work”!

There are many layers to unfold and practice; this all takes diligence, time, and patience. There is no rush. Your Tai Chi should be an enjoyable, rejuvenating, and meditative experience.  The journey is endless; we don't worry about reaching the mountain summit as the journey is much more fun.